Realistic price for Williams 3

[FlamingMonkey]

Hello I thought I would de-lurk and hopefully get an honest opinion on a price I should be looking to pay for this Williams. Hope its in the right forum

Anyone got any idea what I should be offering price wise for the following

Clio Williams 3, 95 N 53,000 miles, 2 Owners, ABS, FSH, Original alloys

The garage has it up for £5695, and I know the price will be dependant on condition, but I haven’t seen it yet, I was wondering what you lot would expect to pay for a decent-ish example, if, it is decent.

Also I’m hoping to trade in my valver, any idea what I should expect to get trade in.

Mines a

1992 K Met Grey, 110,000 miles just had engine rebuilt with new bottom end, new clutch 6 months ago, new discs and pads all round, 6 months MOT & Tax, tatty bodywork around back arches, not a minter but certainly no banger, well I like to think its not.

Any help/info would be appreciated.

Cheers

Rob

 

[aaronc]

Get it for 5k and youll be alright.

Your valver = 1400/1600

 

[FlamingMonkey]

£1400/1600 Really?? I was only thinking about £500-600, oh well goes to show what I know.... thought Valers would depreciate a lot worse. It probbably because I know every single fault on the car and it affects how I would price the car

 

[northy]

5Grand is good pal. And its on good mileage too.

Things to check are - Leaky sunroof, Hard to do but (look for wet headlining, and water stains around the centre roof console) Rust (wheel arches, driverside rear is the worse, sills, petrol cap and tailgate) Front springs (run your hand around to check for snapped spring, can get costly to replace) Make sure the alarm is working - expensive to fix. Er....Has it been Resprayed. Some willy 3s have been, normally to remove parking dents so check around the petrol cap, doors etc for a signs of a bad job.

When first starting the car - put the steering on lock to lock a few times and listen for any clicks or bangs, And check to see if its cam belts been changed. If not its a bargining point for you. Around £200 to do.

Let us know how you get on fellor.

 

[king.stromba]

What northy said, plus:

Sit in car with engine on and lightly move the steering wheel as if turning but use your finger tips and do it very lightly. There should be about 1 to 2 degrees of movement MAX. If the movement is 2-5 or more degrees the column is worn and will need welding / replacing. Welding will cost 20 quid, but its another bargaining point.

Let the car warm up and check the oil temp. Be around 100 mark, may rise to 110 during driving.

Check for dirty oil. If its very dirty id personally walk away. If its been loved it will be clear.

Look very carefully for dents and rust. Rust can be on the door sills, under the doors, under the boot rubber and around the arch. Rysty arches knock huge amounts off asking price.

Tyres are 100 quid each so chech they are newish as it adds alot if you have to shell out for new rubber. Also check sidewalls of tyres and tread wear as uneven wear indicates handling problems.

Check the last time it had brakes and exhaust. If not in the last year, thats another thing youll be paying up for soon. Look at the wear pattern on the front and rear discs. Lips indicate damaged / sticking calipers.

Most problems on Williams are age related rather than milage related. The engines wear well and can see 200k.



Personally id offer him 4.5k. and see what he says.

 

[northy]

Where are you located.

Im sure if one willy owner from here would come along to help you out !

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Cheers for the info guys loads of good info for me to ponder.

Im based in Lancashire up near Blackburn.

Just been looking around at quotes for insurance on the net, I almost fell of my chair with some quotes £2100 fully comp nearly talked myself out of it.

I didnt realise there was such a huge gap between the Williams and Valver insurance groups, I have manged to get it down to £649 fully comp with Elephant, which is a bit more mangeable.

Its looking like the Williams is going to give me as much trouble as the Valver does with regards to things going wrong, but hopefully it will give me just as many hours pleasure.

The only reason Im changing the 16v is I have always wanted a Williams and I think its a natural progression from the Valver, and its a tad bit newer.

King Stromba, I was thinking around those lines myself 4.5k , I might be cheeky and go for 4k first, worth a try. Especially if he offers me a good deal on trade in.

 

[marvt74]

Doubt they would offer you 1400ish for your valver, thats around the private selling price a grand is more l;ikely i would think

 

[northy]

If you want my help, im in Wigan. : )

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Cheers Northy for the offer of help

The car is actually based in Bolton so not too far from you.

What I think Ill do is nip over during the week after work and check its not a total dog, then if its worth a further inspection bob over in daylight hours at the weekend and maybe you could give me a hand?

Thanks.

 

[Ben H]

On the open market Id expect youd get the £1400 or so people are talking about on here, as the car is. Trading it in, youre looking at about £500 from the dealer, who will want to slap on some new rear arches and warranty the car - before paying VAT on any profit he makes.

I could dig up my huge essay on what to look for on the Williams, but its basically the same as for a 16V.

A word of warning for you, when I was buying a Williams back in September I found that all the well-priced ones had sold by the time I rang and even average condition ones were going for full price. I went to look at a Willy 3 for £5,995 with 59k on the clock that went to sealed bids because of the intense competition. At this time of year, it might be different - but dont be surprised if a seller laughs you off with an offer of less than £5k. Not saying thats what you should pay, but theres always someone willing to pay more for a nice car. Be very wary of mileage too - its pretty easy to clock a Mk1 Clio and there seem to be an awful lot with 50-oddk on the clock.

I would also budget on £500-1000 to get the car up to scratch. Everyone expects a Willy to be mint, but many need the dreaded arch rust and inevitable wheel refurb, as well as a bonnet/bumper respray for the stone chips... and thats before the long list of common mechanical niggles!!!

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Yeah I was only really thinking about £5-600 for the Valver in the condition its in, wish I had sorted them out when I bought it 3 years ago!

Ben, I had noticed a lot of 50K mileage Williams in my short search so far, makes me very nervous when going looking, especially as I have no extensive knowledge of engines etc. The things I do know and to look out for are the same stuff I had go wrong with my Valver..practically everything

Its quite strange reading the posts on here with people having to respray bonnets due to stone chips etc...the weird thing is that on my Valver I think the bonnet is the only place where I cant see any blemishes or chips. Must of been lucky.

Im not holding my hopes up that Itll still be there tonight, if it is its is, if its not its not, and back to Autotrader we go.

Cheers
Rob

 

[Ben H]

The stone chipping on the front only really happens when you drive fast on motorways in my experience. I did a lot of motorway driving in my old 16V and had the bonnet and bumper resprayed a couple of times.

I tend to do a lot less motorway driving these days - hence my Williams is pretty much stone-chip free.

I reckon that if youve got 110k on your Valver that youd feel whether a "50k" Willy was genuine or not (my Valver had 105k). A well-loved car will also come with all the old MoTs and bills to help verify the mileage.

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Well I have just come back from the test drive. And I was impressed with the Williams as I have never drove one before.

First impressions wer the car is immaculate, on closer inspection there are no dings or dents, both arches have the paint bubbling roughly a centimetre in length the rust hasnt broke the paint yet. 2 of the alloys could do with a refurb, they are not tatty, just not perfect.

Err what else, 2 owners from new, first owner had the car 12 months then sold it on.

The car has a full Magnex exhaust the dealer told me, not sure if Magnex means it good or bad?

Interestingly enough the car is coming with an Alpine Head Unit, 6 Disc Changer, Alpine Amp, and a professionally made Acoustic shelf, with Alpine 6x9s.

Im not sure whteher it has been lowered or what? It definately sat a bit lower when next to my Valver, only a wee bit though.

The guy offered my a £1000 for my Valver in part ex which I thought was reasonable as it failed to start a few times

With everything included and my car as part ex he said he could do the car for £4600 and my car inc. Alpine stuff.

Th funny thing is I tried to budge him down to £4500, and he wouldnt I even ended up leaving the garage with him thinking he lost a sale over £100.

Anyway what do you guys reckon from my vague description of the car, should I offer him £4600 if he taxes the thing or am I being ripped off.

The car drove like a dream so much more presence to the car than the Valver and a lot less rattles.

What do you lot reckon yea or nea?

 

[Matty]

1st get it HPId. £40 oer whatever and that should help you decide. I would have also added check the tyres. You wont believe the number of people who just buy any tyre, seen some cars with different make on ever corner which can mean they have been replaced at different times (why) and also that they dont care what they fit.

Lastly just go with your head. I have often spent too long over buying something through being cautious and regretted it when it has been sold to someone else. Remember to factor in costs of cambelt change 160-200 quid and get done by a renault specialist like Ktec, BB, Hillpower etc. Factor in arches and and refurbing of wheels etc.

As the car is old, it is gonna be hard to find one without a little kerbing or rust on rear arches, but dont pay top dollar. You will always find them privately and personally I prefer to buy that way as you actually meet the last owner (usually) so can decide a lot on that. Also you dont provide someone with a profit so get a better deal.

 

[Matty]

Thinking about this again. You are not getting that good a deal. 4.6k for the car plus yours means that you are paying full price. You would be better selling your car privately and seeing what he would sell for with no PX.

He would also have to sell with the alpine gear anyway as what use would it be (to him) and how costly would it be to take out.

 

[Ben H]

It doesnt sound like a cracking deal to me. You say it looks and drives nicely, but what about the paperwork and bills?

Id certainly consider a Williams with a touch of rust and in need of a wheel refurb (most will need this anyway), but not unless the rest of the car was 100% - and definitely not unless it had a mountain of history at £5600. Remember that the "real" price of that car has to include the rear arches and wheel refurb, so its more like £6500+ if you want it to be mint.

Theres a member called Riplash who has his mint Willy 2 up for grabs on the For Sale forum. It may need the wheels refurbing, but its otherwise a very promising-looking example without the problems mentioned above, for safely under £5k (and standard too). Hes just the type you want to be buying from (forced sale) and he might even take your 16V as part-ex too! Here you go:

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=16&TopicID=70271&PagePosition=1http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=16&TopicID=70271&PagePosition=1

 

[Matty]

Forgot to say the Magnex is a good idea. My 16v came with a magnex and K&N. Took K&N off straight away as it just sucks hot air in and make a loud noise. Magnex was fitted by owner as OE exhaust broke and Magnex comes with lifetime guarantee. IMO the Magnex looks better than OE exhaust too.

 

[Ben H]

Funny - I went from a stainless to an OE back box. Ok, so the OE one will degrade a lot quicker, but there is definitely no drop in performance that youd notice. The only exhaust mod worth it for "power" alone is a de-cat pipe IMO.

 

[Matty]

To me I think the magnex 3 inch tailpipe just looks right popping out under the bumper. OE one just seems to not fit as well when you compare. Cleans up nicer too and should last ages. Just my opinion.

 

[Matty]

back to subject, this on autotrader seems a better buy and possible room to negotiate:

1995 RENAULT CLIO 2.0 Williams Three 3dr Hatchback
1995 N-REG, 1 OWNER, 56,000 MILES, FULL SERVICE HISTORY, (SERVICED EVERY 3,000 MILES EVERY INVOICE), williams blue metallic, spec includes p/steering, abs, gold alloys, remote locking alarm/immobilliser, e/windows/mirrors/sunroof, radio/cassette, outstanding condition, drives superbly, long mot & tax. 56000 miles. £4950 FIELDSEND CARS .





Tel: 020 86414588 or 07775 948119

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Cheers matty, its a bit further away from me, I take it;s London village from the tel no.

I am going to go over this afternoon and have another look at the car in real light and not a showroom.

I am in two minds about it at the moment, on one hand I want to snap it up, but on the other I am cautious about the price and his refusal to budge, but I reckon this is down to him giving me a realy good price for my valver £1000, tbh I wouldnt even pay more that 500quid for my car at the moment, it has dodgy exhaust, heaters dont work, sounds like a bearing on its way out, refuses to start on occasions, stinks of damp due to leeaking in somewhere, and its also full of dings/dents and rust.

 

[FlamingMonkey]

If anyones interested in this saga, I have bought the Williams and I am picking it up first thing in the morning. Eee I cant wait

Looks like I might have to stump up my membership fees now I have a Williams.

Cheers for all you help guys, I really appreciated it

Rob

 

[Clio_novice]

Well done matey, good decision. Now Enjoy!

 

[Daz.]

Quote: Originally posted by FlamingMonkey on 18 February 2004

Im based in Lancashire up near Blackburn.

Wherebouts did you look at it? Which garage? Im from Blackburn... Darn It I wanted to be the only Willy owner round here - Ive seen ONE driving past in the last 2 years!

 

[Ben H]

Cool - hope its all you expect and more!

Get some pics up when youve collected it!

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Daz0rz Im actually from Darwen, but nobody ever knows where that is so thats why I usually say Blackburn.

The garage I got it from was located in Bolton, cant remeber the name off the top of my head.

I dont recall ever seing a Williams around BBurn Darwen area before, thought Id be the first

I will be sure to take some pics tomorrow after a good clean and wax.

Thanks lads.

 

[Daz.]

Ahh Darwen - IM SORRY! sh*tville of the highest! - Well dpends where you are I mean...

Im over at the girlfriends in bolton every week - Always have a quick nosey at the garages on the way in for Willys - must not pass the one you mean though...

Get it! Ive always fancied a blast againt a willy - Ive got a feeling mines a quick valver you see and I want to test that theory!

 

[FlamingMonkey]

I agree Darwen is sh*t tip, but I do live in a decent-ish part of the town.

I also thought I had quick Valver too till I drove the Williams

I pick the beast up tomorrow so Im thinking I will be cruising around looking for some fun might see you around.

Come to think of it looking at your avatar, and knowing there arent very many Naples Red Clio 16vs around, or so Ive seen, I cant help thinking weve met before, M65 maybe between Colne and Darwen when I was in the Valver?

 

[Daz.]

Straps his thinking cap on What colour was your valver?

Dont think Ive ever encountered another valver on the actual motorway before.. Infact Ive only seen 3 round here in the last 4 months!

 

[FlamingMonkey]

My Valver was Metallic Grey ish K Reg, I just seem to remeber having a play with a Naples Red Valver, probabbly last summer, first and last time I ever came across a Valver on the road, thats why I remeber it. I remeber the car being mint and feeling slightly ashamed that mine looked grotty and rusty and I even got pasted by it, I was 3 up and he was 2 up, we gt up to some pretty interesting speeds before I realised I could do without loosing my licence.

 

[Daz.]

Might have been the previous owner possible as I bought it end of August, the guy I got it off is from Bolton and used to reguarly come through Darwen to work I believe...

 

[Daz.]

only other valver ive seen that gave me trouble once was a blue ph1 with white alloys (possible speedlines) and a centre exit exhaust - i was very full as we were off on holiday (mum and dad were in too - classic!) he was on his bill and gave me a little seeing too - as id expect my brothers at least a Ton!