RS - Feel the Need

[Waitey]

To be fair these were going pop from the off. I posted on there about my friends going with in 2k miles and 4 weeks of delivery. All the ford fan boys said it was isolated and would be a 'bug' with the early cars.

The problem was there from the onset, using a blinkered 'ooooooh Ford RS' view to ignore it during the purchase process only to be totally miffed a bit later on is madness.

 

[r0ss172]

I spent last night watching FK8 Type R reviews :mask:

I'll see what the dealership say this week...if they don't or won't or can't tell me how the new engine is different and how it has been changed to avoid the specific failure I suffered I may look to reject the car based on the six month thing.

Clearly, if it comes to that, they'll allow for some fair use and reduce the value accordingly...but hey ho. Them there Civics are quite cheap by comparison :tongueclosed:

Or I could always sell it on with a brand new but barely run in engine and a full 4+ years of Ford warranty remaining...

Anyone interested?

Mark - Shame to see you've gone through this mate, but hope its all resolved as you wish. Your comment about the TYPE R has caught my eye... i'll be very interested to see/hear your opinion on them if you go out for a drive in one. I decided to go for a Golf R (RS's were on a 6 month wait so instantly dismissed) over a Type R (FK2) after driving both back to back... Compared to the RS, as was my experience with the Golf, i doubt the Civic will put a smile on your face for day to day driving. Like all FWD hot hatches these days, the torque limiting just blunts the experience in my opinion. Only when they are driven on a track or in real anger do they really come alive, which really isn't suitable for the public roads in my opinion. That said, i haven't driven the new Type R, so will look forward to your feedback if you go for a test drive in one !

 

[...]

Not wishing to sound flippant but , an RS ford , loosing water and needing the block replaced , welcome to the 90's cosworth lumps cracking blocks , blowing head gaskets , and warping were part and parcel of my cosworth ownership and many others ...........

Though this does sound like its happening earlier on in the cars lives .

 

[Al_G]

Really interesting situation. Fantastic video too, well done and keep them coming (if FORD don't need up bumping you off for tarnishing their brand/reputation lol)

 

[c4pob]

I spent last night watching FK8 Type R reviews :mask:

I'll see what the dealership say this week...if they don't or won't or can't tell me how the new engine is different and how it has been changed to avoid the specific failure I suffered I may look to reject the car based on the six month thing.

Clearly, if it comes to that, they'll allow for some fair use and reduce the value accordingly...but hey ho. Them there Civics are quite cheap by comparison :tongueclosed:

Or I could always sell it on with a brand new but barely run in engine and a full 4+ years of Ford warranty remaining...

Anyone interested?

What's your favourite driving characteristic of the RS? I would hazard a guess it's the feeling of the car 'pushing' you down the road, or that mobile rear going round a wet roundabout. From what I gather, both of which are quite unique in the current crop of hyper hatchbacks. Having switched to a FWD daily recently, it's thoroughly underwhelming (albeit, the one I'm driving is not as good as the type R) so fear it would be the same for you...not wanting to put words into your mouth of course.

 

[Crybert]

I’d love one of the new rs for sure but that issue would put me off.

Other thing that frustrates me is using old engines. The base engine is from the old Mazda mps range. Can they not afford to develop a new more modern engine?

Anyway as I said in the other thread I’d want to send it back to the dealer

 

[Crybert]

Really good video mark.

Will you be keeping a log of heat cycles/miles for the new engine?

Would have been interesting if you had on the original engine then compared it with the new engine to confirm if they’ve done anything different (which let’s be honest, by the sounds of it they haven’t)

 

[Cain]

another great video makes sense your theory will be interested to keep a close eye on the issue for other owners too and see what happens

 

[Ant1]

To be fair these were going pop from the off. I posted on there about my friends going with in 2k miles and 4 weeks of delivery. All the ford fan boys said it was isolated and would be a 'bug' with the early cars.

The problem was there from the onset, using a blinkered 'ooooooh Ford RS' view to ignore it during the purchase process only to be totally miffed a bit later on is madness.

It was almost immediately after launch Issues arised, I remember it well. Wouldn't you none with a barge poll.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

If this is the case (if being the operative word of course), then it will soon be solved. It may well be that they can just revise the head machining process to leave a bit more material in place. At worst, a revision to the block/head casting will almost certainly be possible and that will make the whole assembly stiffer. The engine works in principle (in the Mustang), so a fix is going to be possible. Yes, if Ford then have to have new tooling made for the engines, it's going to cost them a lot of money, but that isn't going to impact owners. If the cars get new engines and retain matching numbers (why wouldn't they?), then people can just get on with driving them. Just don't buy one that hasn't had the work done. It may have some small impact on values in the shorter term but, when they reach the point of interest for collector-types, the vast majority will have had it done and all of this will be largely forgotten.

I’d love one of the new rs for sure but that issue would put me off.

Other thing that frustrates me is using old engines. The base engine is from the old Mazda mps range. Can they not afford to develop a new more modern engine?

Anyway as I said in the other thread I’d want to send it back to the dealer

This happens all the time. Developing an entirely new engine comes with huge costs. If they can evolve an older design to keep it fresh, then why not? If you want them to put brand new engines in more regularly, you would end up paying a lot more for your cars.

 

[Crybert]

If this is the case (if being the operative word of course), then it will soon be solved. It may well be that they can just revise the head machining process to leave a bit more material in place. At worst, a revision to the block/head casting will almost certainly be possible and that will make the whole assembly stiffer. The engine works in principle (in the Mustang), so a fix is going to be possible. Yes, if Ford then have to have new tooling made for the engines, it's going to cost them a lot of money, but that isn't going to impact owners. If the cars get new engines and retain matching numbers (why wouldn't they?), then people can just get on with driving them. Just don't buy one that hasn't had the work done. It may have some small impact on values in the shorter term but, when they reach the point of interest for collector-types, the vast majority will have had it done and all of this will be largely forgotten.



This happens all the time. Developing an entirely new engine comes with huge costs. If they can evolve an older design to keep it fresh, then why not? If you want them to put brand new engines in more regularly, you would end up paying a lot more for your cars.

It’s not exactly cheap to begin with!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I know you've been a lap time guy since I've known of you Mark. I think you'd really miss the playful rear axle of the RS if you got a Type R.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

It’s not exactly cheap to begin with!

The RS? About the same price as a Golf R and a good bit cheaper than an AMG A45 and an RS3, so about right for it's marketplace, surely?

 

[Ian_182]

I know you've been a lap time guy since I've known of you Mark. I think you'd really miss the playful rear axle of the RS if you got a Type R.

Isnt the new Type R a bit of a track weapon itself.?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Isnt the new Type R a bit of a track weapon itself.?

Oh I'm sure it is. But for all the times you're on the road and the only fun bit of driving you get to do is that moment you navigate a roundabout at 45 degrees to your vector angle I think the Type R would be a lot less appealing.

 

[imprezaworks]

Ha ha.

 

[Ian_182]

I think if he goes down the route of giving the car back he must try one. Just for comparison and from what I read they are very closely matched.
Maybe he could even try a VWR just to tell us all what its like between them all.

 

[imprezaworks]

And maybe video it

 

[shiftspark]

I thought he'd reviewed all the alternative cars before he bought the RS..

 

[imprezaworks]

My comment was a tad jokey.

If mark has it would be good to see his comparison.

 

[Ian_182]

And maybe video it

With gloves and quick mafs.

 

[mace¬]

@MarkCup after all your research, planing, analysis, comaprison, logging, anal-ness to detail etc how did you manage to buy a lemon?

Did you get fogged by the RS badge?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

BabyBMW has a pretty good deal on M140is About 5k per year depreciation and you'll need to spend £2k day 1 to get the diff. But I doubt you'd regret it.

 

[MarkCup]

What's your favourite driving characteristic of the RS? I would hazard a guess it's the feeling of the car 'pushing' you down the road, or that mobile rear going round a wet roundabout. From what I gather, both of which are quite unique in the current crop of hyper hatchbacks. Having switched to a FWD daily recently, it's thoroughly underwhelming (albeit, the one I'm driving is not as good as the type R) so fear it would be the same for you...not wanting to put words into your mouth of course.

It is exactly that, the RWD sense and the fact you can adjust the attitude of the car exiting a corner using the throttle.

Really good video mark.

Will you be keeping a log of heat cycles/miles for the new engine?

Would have been interesting if you had on the original engine then compared it with the new engine to confirm if they’ve done anything different (which let’s be honest, by the sounds of it they haven’t)

I've been thinking about rigging up a permanent datalogger for the new one so that I can see how well I stick to the 5k rpm/75% throttle run-in limits and also what temperatures I reach and so on,

I know you've been a lap time guy since I've known of you Mark. I think you'd really miss the playful rear axle of the RS if you got a Type R.

I would, a lot. Last night I was having a moment of weakness...but having read and watched a lot more about the FK8 it just takes itself too seriously. Lap times, track weapon, yeah, but no thanks. I like the fact that the RS just says f*** you to all of that and hangs its arse out for pure LOLS and nothing else.

I think if he goes down the route of giving the car back he must try one. Just for comparison and from what I read they are very closely matched.
Maybe he could even try a VWR just to tell us all what its like between them all.

As said above, a momentary lapse of fanboyism last night. The RS is the perfect car for me right now and, genuinely, there's nothing else out there that would tick as many boxes for me.

I thought he'd reviewed all the alternative cars before he bought the RS..

Nope. Not one. I've not driven a single on the the RS's rivals and have no desire to either.

@MarkCup after all your research, planing, analysis, comaprison, logging, anal-ness to detail etc how did you manage to buy a lemon?

Did you get fogged by the RS badge?

I did indeed although I can say that at the time I placed the order the failures were very few and far between. I saw it as isolated issues but undertand it now as just being a bit of a major f*** up on Ford's part and I'm caught right in the middle of it all.

I have a call with the dealership tomorrow so I'll find out how likely I am to get some proper answers from Ford.

 

[MarkCup]

Enjoyed the last vid. Some valid points made. Reading the comments I can’t believe that some people have been through two engines already.

More and more are crawling out of the woodwork now. There's quite a few on their third engine!

I've been told by ore than a few Ford people that the issue is definitely fixed now although not one of them can tell me how.

When I know and understand that I'll maybe start believing it. Until then my blinkers remain firmly attached.

 

[Ian_182]

The data logger would be good on the new engine in case it happened again.
Also it would be good as ford say oh not again it must be your driving.
And you say "Ahem" data logger mother f*****s.

 

[Jonnio]

The gloves 😢

That was genius, reminded me of Partridge.

 

[MarkCup]

That was genius, reminded me of Partridge.

Stringbacks give a better purchase.

 

[Gally]

More and more are crawling out of the woodwork now. There's quite a few on their third engine!

I've been told by ore than a few Ford people that the issue is definitely fixed now although not one of them can tell me how.

When I know and understand that I'll maybe start believing it. Until then my blinkers remain firmly attached.

That would put an owner off after 2 incicents!

 

[mace¬]

I've no idea, my 'channel' (I hate calling it that!) just sort of happened! In the beginning (my first upload was November 2006) all I ever wanted to do was share track exploits. Then when I had my ST I started thinking about things I personally would like to watch/see...like how to change brake discs/pads...so I thought I'd have a go at making one. That was the first video I actually spoke to the viewer on...very cringey watching it back. A few more like that followed before in January this year I finally grew a pair and decided to appear on and speak directly to the camera when I made my left-foot-braking film.

That seemed to go down quite well so more like that followed (H&T shifting, rev matching) and with the Focus RS being on order it was then a natural progression to regular vlogging of my long-term ownership and experiences with it. Quite surprisingly it seems I have an audience. Shameless social media promotion and posting has also helped a lot.

I saw someone else who had a failed engine made a video and it hit 100k views...when I made this I said to my wife I'd be happy with half that over time. It's almost done that in one week!

I can only suggest watching YT videos on how to promote yourself and so on...the main thing is you need to have something that's either relevant to people, today, or has enduring appeal so people will keep coming back to it. That was the main thinking behind the brake change video as there was nothing else out there but a very active online community of owners that would probably benefit from it.

Various functions and abilities on Youtube open up to you over time as your channel view count increases and so long as you don't keep running into copyright disputes...but keep at it with good quality watchable content and the subscribers, viewers, and pennies will surely come!

You now need to get on to Honda, BMW etc and say I've bought a s**t Ford, I'm getting 30k+ views a week so let me borrow one of your cars fopr a week and do a review for anyone thinking of an alternative.

 

[Goodj]

You now need to get on to Honda, BMW etc and say I've bought a s**t Ford, I'm getting 30k+ views a week so let me borrow one of your cars fopr a week and do a review for anyone thinking of an alternative.

There are 30,000 FRS owners out there?
That's a lot of bearded snapbacks

 

[Marc.]

There are 30,000 FRS owners out there?
That's a lot of bearded snapbacks

No wonder Monster logo and VR#44 stickers are so hard to buy at the moment

 

[Rob]

You now need to get on to Honda, BMW etc and say I've bought a s**t Ford, I'm getting 30k+ views a week so let me borrow one of your cars fopr a week and do a review for anyone thinking of an alternative.

You're not onto a bad thing there...

 

[mace¬]

You're not onto a bad thing there...

lol, only took 10 years of membership to be useful.

I'd have thought this would be the type of PR dealers would be looking to capitalise on.

 

[Rob]

@MarkCup I've just watched your video, first one in a long time as I have a pathalogical hate of YouTube videos (I've no idea why). Interesting stuff, loved the glove throw.

Anyway, I was giving it some thought, and considered a @gally -esque approach...

Have you considered going down and carefully photoing all of the points where bumper meets wing, all around the top of the wings, basically any areas of paint that may get damaged whilst trying to remove the engine?

It would bug the s**t out of me if they scratched it and then said 'that's just a stone chip' or 'that was already there'.

Not saying they will, but as you say, it's the first one they're doing, and it's a big job.

 

[mace¬]

@MarkCup I also wanted to ask what your relationship with the garage is like?
Are they being really genuine and helpful or do you get the feeling they think here comes that Mark chap again with his cameras and questions, what does he want now?

 

[Gally]

As per Robbo!!!! I imagine Mark would!

 

[Dan]

What have you got out of ford mark?

A few other lads have got £500 back plus extended warranty and one or two have had some other things thrown in such as free service plan etc with it.

In terms of the engineering part, if it’s made to change shape and distort etc then in theory a head gasket is the issue as it could be cooling quicker and shrinking etc etc.

As an engineer I can see multiple reasons for this sorta failure.

The most common thing I see is the fault code “misfire cylinder 3” which says to me the fault can be searched for and focused on that area.

Ford have an answer, they probably knew about this before the weight picked up behind it.

The question is will they pluck up the money to fix it, as an engine that puts out 150hp per litre is pretty highly strung and a mass produced engine/ part that is stronger at that power output is going to be extremely expensive.

Cosworth are onboard now, and according to sources are leading the fix (they have a name to keep in this too as Cosworth was the buzz word for the mk3!)

According to sources the recall will be sent to press in Feb and released soon after (mk3 RS stops production in Feb)

I imagine they will get the financial year out the way too so the losses don’t show up straight away.

I also don’t think you will get an upgraded engine, as they are only going in new cars right now.

 

[James Mk1]

Off-topic somewhat but I must say your videos are good. I remember when you first started making them and some mocked, but actually it seems you have built quite a following already, 2.7k subs isn't bad! Your videos have a niche in some ways and you are clearly getting better each video. Keep it up!

And btw, don't spend your money on a new Honda. Buy a 10 year old Subaru/Evo for half the price and have twice the fun.

 

[Poopensharten]

Sell it and buy an RS3.