Ruined...

[Unicorn]

I had a nasty brush with a van on a flyover roundabout on my way into work this morning. My immaculate (ignore the dirt, roads are atrocious at the moment) MK3 DCi is destroyed along one side The van driver pulled out in front of me, I had nowhere to go but the rapidly closing gap between him and the guard rail, couldn't stop dead because there was a car on my rear bumper so I tried to go for the gap. The van driver (fleet insurance) denied responsibility at the scene but doesn't have a leg to stand on. He pulled out in front of me, and if I'd taken the exit he claims to think I was taking, he'd have been pulling out in front of the car which was right behind me. So, out of interest what's this sort of damage likely to cost the insurance company? It needs a new door skin and rear quarter at the very least, along with some trim. I don't think the inner door itself is kinked.

 

[...]

On a roundabout and went for the gap are the sorts of things that indicate you may find this a 50/50 claim , if you saw the gap closing easing off or braking was the better bet , if the car from behind hit you then ypur 100%in the clear

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

On a roundabout and went for the gap are the sorts of things that indicate you may find this a 50/50 claim , if you saw the gap closing easing off or braking was the better bet , if the car from behind hit you then ypur 100%in the clear

^^^^this

Slam on emergency stop like your supposed to. f**k to the car behind. Shouldn't be tailgating you.

 

[172Ben]

50/50 this will be, easy

 

[...]

To much not thinking ahead from drivers these days, the more i think about it the less chance he has of even 50/50 from what he has said

 

[banther]

"Went for the gap [y0]"

I would have just been rear ended - not your fault then.

 

[Unicorn]

With due respect guys, that's b****cks. He drove out in front of me, I slowed down, he kept coming and moving over, I brushed him. 100% nothing I could do. I'm not talking about a 15mph town roundabout, I'm talking about a motorway slipway flyover junction - I was in 3rd and doing a good 40mph when he pulled out. I didn't even have time to react quickly enough to emergency stop. If he'd stopped coming, I'd have had room to get past. You can't call a 'he drove out into my lame' a 50/50 claim. f**k. That.

 

[Paprika123]

"Went for the gap [y0]"

I would have just been rear ended - not your fault then.

A few quid on a whiplash claim for your troubles too.

 

[172Ben]

was he coming from the right?

im confused

 

[Spinksy]

A few quid on a whiplash claim for your troubles too.

Are you kidding me?

Ffs don't encourage false claims!

 

[Unicorn]

No, the left... I'm hit on the left side.

 

[Spinksy]

was he coming from the right?

im confused

Sounds like he was coming from the left in a merge in style section

Like joining from slip road type thing

 

[Unicorn]

Not that either. It's a motorway on-ramp flyover. He was coming onto the flyover from a junction in front of me, I was already on it heading for a junction further along it.

 

[Paprika123]

Are you kidding me?

Ffs don't encourage false claims!

But if someone ran into the back of him it would be totally legit.

 

[172Ben]

if he actually got whiplash yeh

 

[Spinksy]

But if someone ran into the back of him it would be totally legit.

Not unless he actually had whiplash it wouldn't?

And someone didn't run into the back of him so that point is null and void.

 

[ThomasBrentnall]

Google map of the location?

 

[Unicorn]

Working on it between phone calls here. The mobile connection on my laptop is piss slow at this site this morning.

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

Not that either. It's a motorway on-ramp flyover. He was coming onto the flyover from a junction in front of me, I was already on it heading for a junction further along it.

What's the visibility like seeing cars coming on from the slip? Was you looking for cars joining from the slip? Or they just suddenly appear from behind barriers etc?

 

[...]

With due respect guys, that's b****cks. He drove out in front of me, I slowed down, he kept coming and moving over, I brushed him. 100% nothing I could do. I'm not talking about a 15mph town roundabout, I'm talking about a motorway slipway flyover junction - I was in 3rd and doing a good 40mph when he pulled out. I didn't even have time to react quickly enough to emergency stop. If he'd stopped coming, I'd have had room to get past. You can't call a 'he drove out into my lame' a 50/50 claim. f**k. That.

With due respect in return i would suggest that some of us are older and wiser.
Both Ron and myself have tried to advise you but alas you do not seem to want to listen
Look ahead and anticipate , roundabouts are typical for this type of incident due to the number of entry and exit points.
It will go 50/50 at best

Did the car right behind you stop and give details for a witness statement ?

If they had you may have had a chance , without ,my friend you will have learnt a valuble lesson

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

One of the most used bits of commentary on my advanced driving course was 'where there's an off there's an on (referring to motorway junctions), looking for vehicles joining from the left'

 

[Unicorn]

What's the visibility like seeing cars coming on from the slip? Was you looking for cars joining from the slip? Or they just suddenly appear from behind barriers etc?

The visibility is crystal clear if you look where you're going, which he obviously didn't. There are no barriers, just a triangular grass verge as you'll see on the map:



The Red arrow is his direction of travel, the green arrow is mine and the blue dot is the approximate location at which we collided.

With due respect in return i would suggest that some of us are older and wiser.
Both Ron and myself have tried to advise you but alas you do not seem to want to listen
Look ahead and anticipate , roundabouts are typical for this type of incident due to the number of entry and exit points.
It will go 50/50 at best

Did the car right behind you stop and give details for a witness statement ?

If they had you may have had a chance , without ,my friend you will have learnt a valuble lesson

Some of you may be older but whether you're wiser or not is open for discussion No seriously, I don't want to listen to any negativity about this at the moment because I am on the brink of cutting up my license, quitting my current job to stop the commute and getting job closer to home which I can walk or get the bus to. I have literally had it up to the eyeballs with dickheads on the road here for the pas 12 months. This is the second time someone has caused me to have an accident in 6 months, and I'm not a bad driver. Not to mention the many close calls I've had with lorries, boy racers and other generally absent minded people on the road. Not two weeks ago I had to put the Clio on a grass verge to avoid getting written off by a racer coming over the crest of a hill half on my side of the road.

No, unfortunately the car behind me didn't stop to give a statement.

 

[banther]

The bit I dont get is you say you slowed down but you also say you didnt have enough time to brake?!

I dont really care but you might want to get your story straight.

 

[...]

One of the most used bits of commentary on my advanced driving course was 'where there's an off there's an on (referring to motorway junctions), looking for vehicles joining from the left'

Sunglasses_Ron i think over the years i have done 4 or 5 with class one instructors , and a company i worked for for 10 years used to make all employees who had a company vehicle pass the IAM test , i am no saint on the road , and no doubt drive quicker than i should allot , its observation and anticipation , those things save so many accidents , i drive 30 to 40k a year in and around the worst roads in the country (over half mine is inside the m25.
People need to learn to be responsible , even a car pulling out of a side road can be avoided if your looking.

I road a bike on a commute in central london for 6 years , you learn pretty quick to watch the f**k whats going on .

anyway , to the OP tell your insurance what happened on the form , let them deal with it and move on , lifes to short.

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

The visibility is crystal clear if you look where you're going, which he obviously didn't. There are no barriers, just a triangular grass verge as you'll see on the map:



The Red arrow is his direction of travel, the green arrow is mine and the blue dot is the approximate location at which we collided.

Ok so that's a roundabout then not a slip road.

Yes he should of seen you I agree totally.

You should be looking at cars at joining to try and anticipate what they're going to do. Looking for eye contact is a good habit. Look to see if they are looking. If they're not then you need to take action.

Genuinely hope your claim woks out for you.

 

[...]

The visibility is crystal clear if you look where you're going, which he obviously didn't. There are no barriers, just a triangular grass verge as you'll see on the map:



The Red arrow is his direction of travel, the green arrow is mine and the blue dot is the approximate location at which we collided.

if you were doing 40mph then for the point of impact to be where it was why did you not see him apraoching and why did you not anticipate that he would not pull out ,

looking again , what you have said and what you have marked 50/50



and seriously , if you have had that many incidents in the last weeks and months you really really have to look at yourself .

Yes there will be moments , but learn to see whats going on , seriously try and take something positive from this , get yourself on an IAM course rather than give up , and maybe it will help you understand how to better deal with situations and avoid an incident

 

[MarkCup]

Much as it's a sh*t deal you had clear visibility to have seen him coming from way back. Nothing happens suddenly on the roads, there are clues and information everywhere...it was a van...and they don't launch like a drag car does up the strip...so he must have been moving and there for you to see.

Given that I struggle to see how you got pinched unless you were determined to get past before he came out...which your "went for the gap" comment seems to reinforce.

50/50 at best, maybe even against you I'd say.

 

[Unicorn]

The bit I dont get is you say you slowed down but you also say you didnt have enough time to brake?!

I dont really care but you might want to get your story straight.

I have my story straight. I slowed down by coming off throttle, I braked when I realized that we were going to collide. At that point it was too late. I didn't perform an emergency braking maneuver, I performed an avoidance maneuver.

anyway , to the OP tell your insurance what happened on the form , let them deal with it and move on , lifes to short.

Exactly what I plan on doing. All things considered I may be looking at losing my insurance for this vehicle so I'm understandably concerned. Despite my previous statement, life is also too short to not be able to get to work.

Genuinely hope your claim woks out for you.

Thanks.

if you were doing 40mph then for the point of impact to be where it was why did you not see him apraoching and why did you not anticipate that he would not pull out ,

looking again , what you have said and what you have marked 50/50

I did see him, I noticed him pulling out when it was too late. I thought he was pulling out into the lane on the far side of the roundabout (which you can do there - traffic on his left side would always be heading for the first exit onto the M1, so he could have pulled into the outside lane of the roundabout) which is why I changed lanes and went for the inside lane. However, he pulled right out across the roundabout in a long wheelbase van towing a scissor lift with oncoming traffic. Short of stopping in the middle of the roundabout (which I know is what I should have done) there was nothing I could do. The road was blocked until he had got into the lane he was heading for.

 

[...]

Exactly what I plan on doing. All things considered I may be looking at losing my insurance for this vehicle so I'm understandably concerned. Despite my previous statement, life is also too short to not be able to get to work.

can you explain to me why you would loose your insurance ?


i am not sure i understand


oh and not being pedantic ,but being a frelance network engineer (your bio) do you not work for yourself so why quit your job ?

 

[ThomasBrentnall]

Much as it's a sh*t deal you had clear visibility to have seen him coming from way back. Nothing happens suddenly on the roads, there are clues and information everywhere...it was a van...and they don't launch like a drag car does up the strip...so he must have been moving and there for you to see.

Given that I struggle to see how you got pinched unless you were determined to get past before he came out...which your "went for the gap" comment seems to reinforce.

50/50 at best, maybe even against you I'd say.

I'm not buying that last bit, he had right of way, not the van so will be 50/50, but not his fault.

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

I'm not buying that last bit, he had right of way, not the van so will be 50/50, but not his fault.

I think what Harv means is that if the OP didn't take the action expected ie emergency braking, he could be seen as being partly responsible for the collision.

 

[...]

I think what Harv means is that if the OP didn't take the action expected ie emergency braking, he could be seen as being partly responsible for the collision.

yep , exactly , in fact i should give reference to the exact statement in the highway code



187

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to

• pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
• traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
• traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
• motorcyclists
• cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout. Allow them to do so
• long vehicles (including those towing trailers). These might have to take a different course or straddle lanes either approaching or on the roundabout because of their length.
• Watch out for their signals.

Basically the highway code tells you that a roundabout is a recipe for disaster and you should make sure you pay full attention , know where other traffic is around you , be prepared to change lanes, and make sure you have covered all bases.


I know this because i had a case where i had an incident on a roundabout , the car directly on my right turned across me to go off the first exit from the right hand lane , that you would think was blatantly a clear case of the other driver at fault , it went to cour having been offered 50/50 70/30 and 80/20 and i stood my ground with so much factual evidence , photographs and video that the judge clearly could see the other driver was 100% at fault and made her admit it too !!

 

[ThomasBrentnall]

I think what Harv means is that if the OP didn't take the action expected ie emergency braking, he could be seen as being partly responsible for the collision.

I was referring to what Mark put, the bit I highlighted in the quote

 

[MarkCup]

I was referring to what Mark put, the bit I highlighted in the quote

Could it not go against him though?

At 40mph you can stop pretty much on a sixpence in a modern car. So the options were brake for the idiot van driver that you could see would/was pulling out, let him go, continue on your way and no incident occurred...

Or, think "I'll put my foot down and get around him", the last thing he with his long vehicle and scissor lift is/was expecting and it all ends in tears.

The van driver did the same in both scenarios, the OP is the one who had the choice and the choice he made meant an incident unfortunately occurred. Up to the point he decided to 'go for the gap' it would seem as though the incident was avoidable.

 

[...]

Could it not go against him though?

At 40mph you can stop pretty much on a sixpence in a modern car. So the options were brake for the idiot van driver that you could see would/was pulling out, let him go, continue on your way and no incident occurred...

Or, think "I'll put my foot down and get around him", the last thing he with his long vehicle and scissor lift is/was expecting and it all ends in tears.

The van driver did the same in both scenarios, the OP is the one who had the choice and the choice he made meant an incident unfortunately occurred.

and thats how a good barrister would put it in court ,and the op find he is to blame its seriously easier to avoid and accident if your paying attention than deal with the paperwork if you don't.

 

[Matt W]

'And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver'

 

[Mike-bham]

I had a very similar situation many years ago in my first car. The damage didn't look like a alot, but it ended up being a write off. I was lucky enough to be able to put a claim against the other party in the end, as my story was always the same from the start, it was going to go 50/50. But the woman who hit me tried to claim for damage that was evidently already there from something else and got caught out by the assessors.

 

[Darren S]

This is the second time someone has caused me to have an accident in 6 months, and I'm not a bad driver. Not to mention the many close calls I've had with lorries, boy racers and other generally absent minded people on the road. Not two weeks ago I had to put the Clio on a grass verge to avoid getting written off by a racer coming over the crest of a hill half on my side of the road.

You are either very unfortunate and unlucky - or you have to take on the realisation that you're not as good as you might think. I've lived in an out of the Manchester area for pretty much all of my life - and some of the driving habits of people simply beggar belief. I've had a few close runs, some I'll happily admit to be my own mistake or oversight. I've also been in two separate car crashes - neither of which were in this country, nor was I at the wheel. In twenty-two years of driving, I've not had the situation that you mention above.

Who knows. Maybe I'll drive home tonight and get the 182 written off? Maybe my own arrogance in this situation will come back and bite me on the arse? But you have to question when you have a significant number of close calls and near misses as to whether or not the over-riding factor in all this is yourself? Everyone out there on the road can't be a complete idiot.

I'm not wishing you the worst - far from it. But take the resulting action as a learning experience and try to take the best from it. You can never 'learn' spatial awareness as such - you either have it or you don't - but everyone has the ability to ease off and let the nutters in front deal damage to themselves and each other.

D.

 

[JAMason]

You are all talking as if this all happened over a matter of minuets. the chances are the van entered the roundabout unexpected at a point where the OP was left with very little reaction time. Leave it up to the insurance company or even the courts to decide if its a 50/50 or total blame incident, your all just speculating and not even answering the OPs question! "what's this sort of damage likely to cost the insurance company?"

The cost will be based on the quotes and estimates they get to fix the car and agree a pay out price based on the average cost. They will try and get you to have the repair done at one of their "approved" garages, but by law you have the final say in who does the work. In all honesty, it doesn't look to bad, be sure to get a new door skin fitted and as much of the dent pulled out the rear quarter as possible, you don't want a car that's full of bondo/bog/filler! Get it done properly and to a good standard!

Jack

 

[ThomasBrentnall]

Could it not go against him though?

At 40mph you can stop pretty much on a sixpence in a modern car. So the options were brake for the idiot van driver that you could see would/was pulling out, let him go, continue on your way and no incident occurred...

Or, think "I'll put my foot down and get around him", the last thing he with his long vehicle and scissor lift is/was expecting and it all ends in tears.

The van driver did the same in both scenarios, the OP is the one who had the choice and the choice he made meant an incident unfortunately occurred. Up to the point he decided to 'go for the gap' it would seem as though the incident was avoidable.

Personally I think not, if the third party never pulled out this wouldn't have happened so he is also to blame meaning 50/50