Rust repair query

[Adam2k90]

Hi all,

I've been looking for a Clio 172/182 for the last few months and have ran into a slight issue as they all seem to have rust somewhere on the rear arches (my budget is up to £3k, so not bottom of the barrel but not absolutely mint either).

I've just been offered a racing blue 182 for £3200 and mechanically it seems solid. But it also has a fair amount of rust as shown in the pictures. I have two questions I'm hoping some of you may be able to help me with:

1) How much would it cost to get this sorted properly (I'm based in Scotland if that helps)? As much as the car seems great otherwise, generally I've found trying to fight rust is a loosing battle and being based in Scotland doesn't help matters...

2) What causes the rusty arches on 182s? A lot of older threads mention how these cars are pretty good against rust, but nearly everyone I've looked at has some bubbling or full on rust on the arches. I appreciate it is a 15 year old car though.

Thanks in advance!

 

[botfch]

Common issue, rust develops behind in the wheel arch and comes through, often in the fuel filler area aswell.

Needs to be sanded back and treated then paint, if you read through a few of the project logs you will find people repairing it.

 

[Coops Mk1]

mine has exactly that same rust and that's caused by a rear end shunt pushing up the bumper mounts. the bumper then rubs when driving on the arch and wears the paint away. before you know it hey presto a rusty arch in that spot.

stone chips on the leading edge of the arch lead to rust there

damaged or blocked sill drains lead to water retention in the sill cavity and rot there that eats the cars from the inside out

fuel filler areas rot due to mud retention up around the filler neck inside the arch, same issue with leading sill end at front arch where the arch liners fill up with mud

jacking points and sills can be crushed by bad jacking practice which splits underseal and leads to water ingress and rot

basically its all avoidable but unlikely a 15+ year old car with multiple owners would of avoided every single scenario. and they are better for rust then say other mid 2000's cars, look at fords for example. they're also considerably better than earlier mk1 Clio's which disintegrated by 10 years old and sub 100k easily. having said that, my 2001 phase 1 172 on 155k miles is super clean with no rot issues at all so some of it may be luck of the draw

for the cost, all depends, I have had a quote to chop the rot out from there and fuel filler area, rebuild, skim and paint the arch with no blending (so a cheaper option on the paint, but proper job on removing the rot) as the car is a daily and not a show queen so presentable is fine for me, that was £700 quid rough guide depending on what they found when starting to chop as you can find rust under your rust and before you know it half the car is gone.

 

[Adam2k90]

mine has exactly that same rust and that's caused by a rear end shunt pushing up the bumper mounts. the bumper then rubs when driving on the arch and wears the paint away. before you know it hey presto a rusty arch in that spot.

stone chips on the leading edge of the arch lead to rust there

damaged or blocked sill drains lead to water retention in the sill cavity and rot there that eats the cars from the inside out

fuel filler areas rot due to mud retention up around the filler neck inside the arch, same issue with leading sill end at front arch where the arch liners fill up with mud

jacking points and sills can be crushed by bad jacking practice which splits underseal and leads to water ingress and rot

basically its all avoidable but unlikely a 15+ year old car with multiple owners would of avoided every single scenario. and they are better for rust then say other mid 2000's cars, look at fords for example. they're also considerably better than earlier mk1 Clio's which disintegrated by 10 years old and sub 100k easily. having said that, my 2001 phase 1 172 on 155k miles is super clean with no rot issues at all so some of it may be luck of the draw

for the cost, all depends, I have had a quote to chop the rot out from there and fuel filler area, rebuild, skim and paint the arch with no blending (so a cheaper option on the paint, but proper job on removing the rot) as the car is a daily and not a show queen so presentable is fine for me, that was £700 quid rough guide depending on what they found when starting to chop as you can find rust under your rust and before you know it half the car is gone.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. I have seen a few with the fuel filler rust and couldn't for the life of me figure out why they would rust there. Makes a lot of sense in hindsight. I think you're spot on in regards to not being able to control how multiple past owners have looked after a car etc. As much as the car seems good, my gut says the risk of there being a lot more hidden rust means it is probably not worth the £3200 the seller is after at the moment. I'll keep my eyes open to see what other cars are around.

 

[dave120]

Hi mate,

I’m in Scotland also and have been looking for A 172 Cup/182 for a while now. I’ve looked at a lot of cars and the majority have rusty arches and filler neck. My advice would be to stay well away from cars that are rusty as you are only going to end up chasing this for the duration of your ownership.

I have been given the sound advice of finding a car that needs work mechanically but has sound bodywork. That way you at least know how much you have to spend before you get that car back to an acceptable standard etc.

Fixing rust is a never ending and very expensive pass time in my experience.


Good luck.

 

[Adam2k90]

Hi mate,

I’m in Scotland also and have been looking for A 172 Cup/182 for a while now. I’ve looked at a lot of cars and the majority have rusty arches and filler neck. My advice would be to stay well away from cars that are rusty as you are only going to end up chasing this for the duration of your ownership.

I have been given the sound advice of finding a car that needs work mechanically but has sound bodywork. That way you at least know how much you have to spend before you get that car back to an acceptable standard etc.

Fixing rust is a never ending and very expensive pass time in my experience.


Good luck.

It's a bit gutting isn't it? Think you've found a good car...then rust.

Yeah, I think I'm going to take a similar approach to be honest. As you say, once you fix mechanical stuff you know it's been sorted properly and don't really have to think about it and it's a lot easier to budget for. With rust even when it's repaired there is always the risk of it returning.

Hopefully you find a nice clio too👍🏾

 

[npt]

The rust shown is very common considering these cars are getting on a bit now and the uk weather, you could buy one with no rust seen but its most likely been repaired in the past, they suffer back there due to stonechips to the galv coating and the fuel filler traps s**t at the back, if you find a perfect car with only small areas of concern then it's best to get it and have it repaired, least that way you know it's been done correctly rather than a blow over to sell, these cars are not known to be rot boxes so the small areas of concern are perfectly normal giving the circumstances imo

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Hi all,

I've been looking for a Clio 172/182 for the last few months and have ran into a slight issue as they all seem to have rust somewhere on the rear arches (my budget is up to £3k, so not bottom of the barrel but not absolutely mint either).

I've just been offered a racing blue 182 for £3200 and mechanically it seems solid. But it also has a fair amount of rust as shown in the pictures. I have two questions I'm hoping some of you may be able to help me with:

1) How much would it cost to get this sorted properly (I'm based in Scotland if that helps)? As much as the car seems great otherwise, generally I've found trying to fight rust is a loosing battle and being based in Scotland doesn't help matters...

2) What causes the rusty arches on 182s? A lot of older threads mention how these cars are pretty good against rust, but nearly everyone I've looked at has some bubbling or full on rust on the arches. I appreciate it is a 15 year old car though.

Thanks in advance!

Open the fuel hatch and give the door a yank if you want to worry your self. I've just been sorting mine out and it was 100x better than that and it still pissed me right off.

There is a return edge and a plastic cover in that area - my guess is that it gets full of salty mud, overtime the mud slurryshit does the galvanic layer in allowing it to attack the base metal. Best solution is to remove said plastic cover and give it a good jetwashing, protect the area and then jetwash after each winter min. Get your old dears tooth brush round the arch lip to get rid of all the muck.

There is also a cavity at the front on the rear arch (back of sill) which fills up with crud, the biggest issue I think people will run into over the next few years (other than fuel cap rust) is at the back end of the car in front of the spring pads there is a nasty cavity which is hard to clean out properly and fully exposed, being grit blasted by road salt. My car was luckily not bad at all rust wise and I cringed when I saw the arrow cavity, seem to have caught it in time as it hadn't penetrated however cars which have been by the coast or on salty motor ways lots might not have fared so well.

My advice would be to keep looking, perhaps take a trip down south to buy? Mine was a cheap buy and has zero arch rust and has not been repaired.

 

[Coops Mk1]

I'm refusing to acknowledge that area, think rear end of mine is about 2 winters away from dropping off probably, flol!

 

[DomP182]

Agreed Rob, it's a horrible crud

catching area and not easy to get a knotted wheel into either. This was my lockdown fun this year.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Agreed Rob, it's a horrible crud View attachment 1496243View attachment 1496244catching area and not easy to get a knotted wheel into either. This was my lockdown fun this year.

Nice work, caught that in time, Looked similar to mine and agree its awkward to get the wire brush wheel in there, ended up using a variety shapes to get all around properly.

 

[Adam2k90]

Open the fuel hatch and give the door a yank if you want to worry your self. I've just been sorting mine out and it was 100x better than that and it still pissed me right off.

There is a return edge and a plastic cover in that area - my guess is that it gets full of salty mud, overtime the mud slurryshit does the galvanic layer in allowing it to attack the base metal. Best solution is to remove said plastic cover and give it a good jetwashing, protect the area and then jetwash after each winter min. Get your old dears tooth brush round the arch lip to get rid of all the muck.

There is also a cavity at the front on the rear arch (back of sill) which fills up with crud, the biggest issue I think people will run into over the next few years (other than fuel cap rust) is at the back end of the car in front of the spring pads there is a nasty cavity which is hard to clean out properly and fully exposed, being grit blasted by road salt. My car was luckily not bad at all rust wise and I cringed when I saw the arrow cavity, seem to have caught it in time as it hadn't penetrated however cars which have been by the coast or on salty motor ways lots might not have fared so well.

View attachment 1496137

My advice would be to keep looking, perhaps take a trip down south to buy? Mine was a cheap buy and has zero arch rust and has not been repaired.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! Generally out of habit I jetwash underneath my car fairly regularly (especially during the winter), but it is really handy to have the specific areas to focus on.

I think I may end up buying something further down south. I have family in London which opens things up quite a bit in terms of getting people to look at cars on my behalf, so definitely will be looking further afield.

 

[Adam2k90]

Agreed Rob, it's a horrible crud View attachment 1496243View attachment 1496244catching area and not easy to get a knotted wheel into either. This was my lockdown fun this year.

Probably quite a basic question, but was it just a case of clearing the surface rust with a knotted wheel and then treating with the relevant rust protection?

 

[Darren S]

I'm looking into the possibility of having the rear quarter cut out and replaced - to fix both the filler cap issue (which has been there for a good 10+ years and is clearly a very poor design) and address the small bubbling paint area above the leading edge of the bumper lip.

Standard Clio panels can be found online for around £120 inc.VAT. But from Renault and presumably galvanised, they are circa £360+VAT.

I'm trying to locate the part number for the OEM panel as Renault refuse to provide it. If that £360+VAT is the going rate - then fair enough - but I'd rather check with the official part number first and make sure that I'm not just being fleeced by Renault Tax coz Renault.

 

[botfch]

I'm looking into the possibility of having the rear quarter cut out and replaced - to fix both the filler cap issue (which has been there for a good 10+ years and is clearly a very poor design) and address the small bubbling paint area above the leading edge of the bumper lip.

Standard Clio panels can be found online for around £120 inc.VAT. But from Renault and presumably galvanised, they are circa £360+VAT.

I'm trying to locate the part number for the OEM panel as Renault refuse to provide it. If that £360+VAT is the going rate - then fair enough - but I'd rather check with the official part number first and make sure that I'm not just being fleeced by Renault Tax coz Renault.

Seems a tad extreme if the metal on the existing panel is ok and just needs treating?

 

[DomP182]

Probably quite a basic question, but was it just a case of clearing the surface rust with a knotted wheel and then treating with the relevant rust protection?

Basically, remove as much as I could get to the slosh hydrate 80 over it, electrox then dynax ub

 

[Darren S]

Seems a tad extreme if the metal on the existing panel is ok and just needs treating?

I'd much prefer a simple sand-back and repair job - but it seems to be swear words with bodyshops. The two that have actually spoken to me about it and seen the car in person have both said about cutting the entire section out and replacing it. I don't know if that's easier for them, or if it's just a case that it's the better option?

The replacement panel itself is a stumbling block. I've kindly been provided with the official Renault part number of 7751473034 for the rear quarter panel and they are indeed around £430 inc.VAT. Go online however and it's Russian roulette with panels made out of Grade-A Chinisium and others no doubt with the rigidity of a bar of Galaxy chocolate.

The OEM panel is apparently still available from France on a non-cancelable basis. But £430 is pretty hefty for a mass-manufactured panel, that's unpainted and will also need fitting and blending in.

 

[botfch]

I'd much prefer a simple sand-back and repair job - but it seems to be swear words with bodyshops. The two that have actually spoken to me about it and seen the car in person have both said about cutting the entire section out and replacing it. I don't know if that's easier for them, or if it's just a case that it's the better option?

The replacement panel itself is a stumbling block. I've kindly been provided with the official Renault part number of 7751473034 for the rear quarter panel and they are indeed around £430 inc.VAT. Go online however and it's Russian roulette with panels made out of Grade-A Chinisium and others no doubt with the rigidity of a bar of Galaxy chocolate.

The OEM panel is apparently still available from France on a non-cancelable basis. But £430 is pretty hefty for a mass-manufactured panel, that's unpainted and will also need fitting and blending in.

View attachment 1496376
View attachment 1496377

I’d be inclined to speak to a few more shops if it’s the pretty standard corrosion a lot of the clios are getting.
Replacing the whole panel seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and that’s coming from the guy stripping his whole shell to have it resprayed...

 

[Robbie Corbett]

My take on that is "they would say that wouldn't they". As in repairing it in a normal fashion is going to earn them less money than pig welding a new panel on. F that. A decent place will just make up their own small repair patches (if its bad enough) and stitch them in nicely. Or tbh a properly cleaned and treated and filled patch will likely last 3 years+.

The filler is a t**t because the metal the door is screwed through is dead thin so spends it life flexing around while bathed in salty road turd.

 

[dave120]

I looked at lots of cars in Scotland recently and all were rusty including the underside. The car I ended up buying is in pretty good nick and has spent the majority of its life in England so that may count for something. I also think it spent a large part of its life as a track car which I hope meant it didnt really get used in the worst of the winter weather.

 

[hopgop1]

Sorry for the bump. This car has come up for sale again and I have been seriously considering it as I've been after an RB with good history to potentially get into as more of a long-termer, my Arctic was more of a rush buy when I ended up without a car and I've really fallen in love with the 182s but mine doesn't have as much history with it as I'd like and I do really fancy RB. This car has great history but has spent it's life up in Scotland, would I be crazy to think about this and risk opening the Pandora's box of rust repair on it? Or would I be better off holding back for another RB with full history and at least less rust than above?

 

[gez 172]

I think you’ll regret buying it. Head over heart in these circumstances, unfortunately.

 

[HaveaCuppa]

It’s a tough one. Like others have said, unless you can have a good look around it, the rust will most likely be worse that the pics.

Most will have a few scabs now but if you have no issues paying out to repair it the go for it. Maybe try and knock the seller down on the price to make it work?

 

[hopgop1]

It’s a tough one. Like others have said, unless you can have a good look around it, the rust will most likely be worse that the pics.

Most will have a few scabs now but if you have no issues paying out to repair it the go for it. Maybe try and knock the seller down on the price to make it work?

The hardest part is I'm down in Lincolnshire and it's up near Edinburgh, so if I was going up I'd have to be dead set on buying it I think, wouldn't be just to look. I'll see if he'd take any lower for it as I think it's a bit of a piss take at £3500 considering the rust on both arches. I'm not in a rush really and making my Arctic nicer all around has been very rewarding so far.
Anyone selling their RB?

 

[HaveaCuppa]

The hardest part is I'm down in Lincolnshire and it's up near Edinburgh, so if I was going up I'd have to be dead set on buying it I think, wouldn't be just to look. I'll see if he'd take any lower for it as I think it's a bit of a piss take at £3500 considering the rust on both arches. I'm not in a rush really and making my Arctic nicer all around has been very rewarding so far.
Anyone selling their RB?

Ahhh well in that case, give it a miss. That’s a fair trek for a car you’re not dead set on.

Hopefully a decent RB comes up for sale soon as plenty of people are getting bored of lockdown projects haha.

 

[Coops Mk1]

It's a risk, but fast becoming one you may have to take as none rusty RB's get fewer and far between and prices push up to the 5k region and more if you really are set on an RB

My rust has got worse..... but I'm in no rush to sort as it's still passing mot's and I know I'll be looking think end of couple grand sort it properly though.... so if you're willing to commit budget that much to sort the issues and use that as a haggling tool