RWD mk1's

[nathanH]

Anyone built one? Seriously thinking about building one over the summer as a little project, got a few ideas on how to make it work, but just wondered if anyone here or on the continent has built one. Think it will be a really cool and rewarding car to build.

good place for people to give me some ideas and there thoughts.

nathan

 

[derv]

no idea, ive seen someone start on a RWD fiesta mk2 though, think its a case of finding a rwd car that has a similar width to the clio and pinching the neccesary parts.

 

[nathanH]

well i was thinking of cutting the front end off another clio, subframe and all, and cutting the back out the other car, lining it up and welding it in. That to put it simply, dont see why that wouldnt work tho, move petrol tank to the front, weld in a structural cage etc hybrid engine

 

[Djw John]

Someone started a V8 powered one but never saw if it was finished, would be good fun!

 

[edde]

Anyone built one? Seriously thinking about building one over the summer as a little project, got a few ideas on how to make it work, but just wondered if anyone here or on the continent has built one. Think it will be a really cool and rewarding car to build.

There a twin engien Willaims been done before now. Not to difficult to do its only for uniqness wouldn't handle well a FWD is much better.

Someone was trying it last year with a V8 power but I think as with so many projects it got left.

well i was thinking of cutting the front end off another clio, subframe and all, and cutting the back out the other car, lining it up and welding it in. That to put it simply, dont see why that wouldnt work tho, move petrol tank to the front, weld in a structural cage etc hybrid engine

Any car would be fine Renault basicallty did this with the V6 just rammed a Laguna with a traffic gearbox into a Clio shell and had a go at making it to work with wide arches etc.

 

[nathanH]

i appreciate that it wouldnt handle well, it would mostly be for fun factor and to stand back and say 'i built that'. I miss messing around with cars mechanicly, especialy a mk1 as they are so simple to work on. the one thing i can see being difficult to get right would be the gear lincage.

could i get away with using a mk2 abs unit, as its quicker than a valver one and is also 'stand alone' Brake wise how would i set the bias? could i just use a bias adjuster(AP racing make on i do believe)? line lock and hydraulic handbrake?

nathan

 

[edde]

i appreciate that it wouldnt handle well, it would mostly be for fun factor and to stand back and say 'i built that'. I miss messing around with cars mechanicly, especialy a mk1 as they are so simple to work on. the one thing i can see being difficult to get right would be the gear lincage.

could i get away with using a mk2 abs unit, as its quicker than a valver one and is also 'stand alone' Brake wise how would i set the bias? could i just use a bias adjuster(AP racing make on i do believe)? line lock and hydraulic handbrake?

Yep you could I'm writing a guide at the moment to 172 transpalnt and the wiring digrams there the ABS system assuming you use the none ESP one ie dead easy to use also you can use it to power the speedo if your using a gearbox which doesn't have a speedo output can also use it tell an electric stearing rack what speed to go (its a better idea than the old ones IMO).

It shounds like a good plan I'd personaly make it 4 wheel drive and twien engine use two valver engine to reduce costs remove the PAS pumps etc from both and use as I said the electric rack.

Gear linkage is easy just make a metal bar to fit. Mount are a bigger issue if anyhting and you just weld them in idealy make a metal subfream and weld that to soem good points on the shell for strenght.

 

[nathanH]

My idea was to 'simply' move the engine to the back, but 4wd would be interesting, but i dont think im 100% confident in exicuting it. which renault has an electronoic rack, didnt know there was one!? what would be the benfit of having the ABS unit tell the rack what speed to go?
Im thinking if i can weld together a Jig which i can bolt to the floor, with both subframes attached to (with the correct wheelbase etc) then lower the shell onto the jig and bolt the front subframe on, and mark out where the subframe needs to be mounted, weld in new subrame mounts, attach the rear subframe. Then cut out the suspenion turrets and engine mount points (basicly the whole inner engine bay), from the donor, again calulate the distances, width and hight etc, weld them to the shell and strenghten where aplicable, weld some sort of rollcage for rigidity.
I understand it isnt all as simple as i have writen and there will be alot of details so sort, but the way i see it is if i understand just whats got to be done step by step, take my time and get as much information then i cant go far wrong. Agian cliosport is a massive archive for information, like yourself and other people on hear who are always happy to answer and ask questions. This sounding a bit far fetched or quite pheasable?

nathan

 

[edde]

My idea was to 'simply' move the engine to the back, but 4wd would be interesting, but i dont think im 100% confident in exicuting it. which renault has an electronoic rack, didnt know there was one!? what would be the benfit of having the ABS unit tell the rack to speed to go?
Im thinking if i can weld together a Jig which i can bolt to the floor, with both subframes attached to (with the correct wheelbase etc) then lower the shell onto the jig and bolt the front subframe on, and mark out where the subframe needs to be mounted, weld in new subrame mounts, attach the rear subframe. Then cut out the suspenion turrets and engine mount points (basicly the whole inner engine bay), from the donor, again calulate the distances, width and hight etc, weld them to the shell and strenghten where apropriate aplicable, wled some sort of rollcage for rigidity. I understand it isnt all as simple as i have writen and there will be alot of details so sort, but the way i see it is if i understand just whats got to be done step by step, take my time and get as much information then i cant go far wrong. Agian cliosport is a massive archive for information, like yourself and other people on hear who are always happy to answer and ask questions. This sounding a bit far fetches or quite pheasable?

Engine to the back is boring get a bigger engine for starters no point otherwise its to easy might as well; just drive in reverse.

Almost all phase 2's none RS's (some early one don't) have the electric rack

With the ABS telling the stearing the speed it can adjust the assiatnce so at high speed you get less assitance so you cannot try doing a 90 dgree turn at 70mph just by knocking the wheels.

Sounds like a good idea use threaded bars to sort the rear stearing (since there no rack) just like the V6 does.

Got to use a bigger engine though Rover of Vauxhall V6 would be ideal as there smaller than the tank that is the L7X engine Renault use.

win engine valver is best why remove an engine just to put it in the back leave the front in and its twice the power two valver engine even if there down on powe is 240hp which is turbo 2.0 level realy plus eaise to frive and the gearbox will last. Just use twin ECU etc and run a second throttle body cable and clutch cbale to the other engine other than that err a second set of dails for the rear engine oil pressure etc and a seperate start swithc for the rear engine. You'd need to sort a way of ensureing the secon engine (easier to make the rear the second one as such) disengagable easy to do that make the gear selector leve for the rear engine disconnectable inside th car as legally you cannot run two engines on the road.

Only other thing is use a big front engined radiator for cooling.

 

[nathanH]

putting it like that does make i seem more sensible to run 4wd, again tho how the hell do i make a twin gear linkage!? i did think of rose jointing the track rods to the subframes like you said. I do think tho that twin engining would be awsome, but i dont really have the disposable income to buy all the part plus the 2 service bills etc, this wont be an everyday car but 2 engines, twice as much to go wrong. plus i do like the sound of RWD.
On the subject of engines, i had though about an R5 engine, plus they are subframe mounted so saves welding in mounts etc, tunable and parts are cheap. DCi laguna radiators are massive? This would be something i have never taken on before, i do alot of bodywork and welding so im confident with that aspect, also a fair amount of simple mechanical work. im not keen on jumping in the deepend only to end up running out of money and skill if you know what i mean, thanks for the ideas/info by the way, the more the merrier.

 

[cat171]

Someone started a V8 powered one but never saw if it was finished, would be good fun!

I remember that, I believe it didn't happen in the end.

 

[tommyboy]

do it! sounds immense would love to see one

 

[edde]

putting it like that does make i seem more sensible to run 4wd, again tho how the hell do i make a twin gear linkage!? i did think of rose jointing the track rods to the subframes like you said. I do think tho that twin engining would be awsome, but i dont really have the disposable income to buy all the part plus the 2 service bills etc, this wont be an everyday car but 2 engines, twice as much to go wrong. plus i do like the sound of RWD.
On the subject of engines, i had though about an R5 engine, plus they are subframe mounted so saves welding in mounts etc, tunable and parts are cheap. DCi laguna radiators are massive? This would be something i have never taken on before, i do alot of bodywork and welding so im confident with that aspect, also a fair amount of simple mechanical work. im not keen on jumping in the deepend only to end up running out of money and skill if you know what i mean, thanks for the ideas/info by the way, the more the merrier.

Gear linakges are easy dead easy way is to weld a metal bar to the normal front one and link it to the rear gearbox dead easy that real. After all the gearbox doesn't know if the gearbox is being pulled or pushed into place.
Get a vlaver cheap £350 or so max then another without a MOT etc for say £200 or buy two whole care you pick them up dirt cheap these days if you look arounf and see the bits of the second you don't want.

Two engine with no tunning are more reliable anyway if one breaks the valvers are cheap everyone puts 2.0 bottom ends on them so there cheap. also if one engine breaks you've got another just disconnect the broken engine gears lever and drive off. If you want RWD well just disconnect gear lever for the front engine leve it in neutarl and you've got a RWD car with some weight up front.

Could use any big radiator theres loads to choice so long as its from a say 260hp+car and it should be fine might need to make it fit but that no problem.

I've often though about somehting like this but not got a place to do it now that I've got to buy a house.

 

[nathanH]

I cant seem to find any valvers that cheap, where are you looking? see where you coming from with the gear linkage now i can picture it in my head. Yes does seem to make sense to make it twin engined. I supose i can always convert the car to RWD and in the future put an engine back in the front again with a little fuss. Where can i get a complete valver for £350?

would i have to get the car specialy MOTd, VOSA or something? Insurance? what would the V5 say?

 

[edde]

I cant seem to find any valvers that cheap, where are you looking? see where you coming from with the gear linkage now i can picture it in my head. Yes does seem to make sense to make it twin engined. I supose i can always convert the car to RWD and in the future put an engine back in the front again with a little fuss. Where can i get a complete valver for £350?

would i have to get the car specialy MOTd, VOSA or something? Insurance? what would the V5 say?

Since its ilegal to run twin engne on the road V5/MOT/road fund/VOSA is easy as they only test one engine cannot tell them you run both. Insurance hummm have to say its a test car and they should understand its a demo/test car and issure as a modified 1.8 etc

Haveba look round for cheap valved I know a few people who've picked them up form ebay local rags/frineds for £250~350.

 

[nathanH]

cheers glad someone knows there stuff. could turn out to be something quite exciting, i'll let you all know how i get on. thanks again edde.

white with gunmetal turinis?

nathan