SADEV SEQUENTIAL OR A DOG BOX REQUIRED FOR 182 RALLY CAR

[robjohnsonrallying]

Hi does anyone have or know where I can get either a sequential gear box, a dog box or a racing gear box? And how much?? This is for a 54 reg clio 182 rally car. Clip of my last event attached. As you will see why I am loosing lots of time with gear changes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CIpbD6JbEw

Any help or comments gratefully received. Cheers, Rob

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Ideally you'd want a full cup racer Sadev setup. They go for around £3-4k used iirc

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Where is iirc? I've tried google but cant find anything.

 

[Carbonraider]

Ideally you'd want a full cup racer Sadev setup. They go for around £3-4k used iirc

Find me 2 lol.. More like 5-6k

 

[Jamie86]

http://m.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-mo...182-sdtsa-sadev-sequential-gearbox/1070000549

3k!

You're welcome

 

[Pauleds]

What diff and CWP are you currently using as it looks very tall geared to me

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Its standard box and CWP 182 as far as I know. No good for competition.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Jamie, is this your box on gumtree?

http://m.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-mo...182-sdtsa-sadev-sequential-gearbox/1070000549

3k!

You're welcome

 

[Pauleds]

Don't need to get a Sadev just yet then, just get a Gripper diff and 13/60 CWP, it makes one hell of a difference. I fitted one to mine last month for Sprints and Hillclimbs and its so much better!

http://youtu.be/50aa0zJRF0U

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Yours goes well. Much shorter geared than mine. I see you have a bit of under steer same as I had. Have you got rear coil overs? I got some Gaz adjustable front and rear coil overs from ebay cost around £260 for rears and £550 for fronts. Completely changed the way it turns in. If you haven't already got them its well worth it.

 

[Jamie86]

Nope just seen it advertised

 

[Pauleds]

Koni dampers, eibach springs, whiteline arb. Had a bit of understeer on that run as it's a kart track so got oil on it and I was using road tyres (Yokohama AD08 not AD08-r).Got to push the car hard round there to get a good time.Engine standard, k+N panel filter, still got a cat (as the rules), ktec supersport stealth cat back exhaust,131bhp at the wheels last time it was checked and it's done 172k miles!!

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Well spotted Jamie, I've emailed the guy to see exactly what it comes with. Fingers crossed its not full of swarf and chunks of nuts and bolts lol

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

it goes well. Looks quicker than my 182. 3 sisters is my local rally its very slippery in a few places even when dry. I got some toyo r888's last week from tweeks for Anglesey and they are ace. no chance of £600 tho but well worth it if you are on a track.

 

[Pauleds]

I really enjoy doing Wigan sprints, I managed to get 1st in class last weekend, 0.29secs off the class record.

I always used ao48r and 21r when I was rallying (205's), never tried r888 and won't be allowed on the Clio as I'm not allowed to use 'Track' type tyres.

I definitely recommend the gripper and 13/60cwp though, it can still do 120+ mph too

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

That's good going. Ive done 3 sisters so many times ive lost track. Very abrasive tarmac on the hill. Just kills tyres downhill. And I've never done lunar bend (by the entrance) the same way twice. I just cant get it right. Having said that I didn't have coil overs last time. Ive contacted the lad on gumtree who has the sadev so will probably buy that. Fingers crossed...

 

[Pauleds]

Wigan in April, different layout and with the standard gearbox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJIEvk3ux8A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Well held that looks good fun, was it a bit damp?

 

[Pauleds]

Yes it was wet as it rained at lunchtime so I was just messing about as I wasn't going to go any quicker.

 

[BIGASH]

If going for a sequential I'd avoid going for the STDSA the ST75 is a much better and stronger box (mainly came in the euro Clio cups)

That box seems cheap which probably only means one thing... It has something wrong or is a ticking time bomb.

An average service from SWR on that box will cost more than you actually pay for the box.

Best bet is to buy a st75 with a recent service but even that might not be faultless.

I thought long and hard about buying that box but thought better off it and if I go down the sequential route then will go st75 and paddles

 

[Andrewclio]

I seconded what James is saying! St75 much stronger box and much easier to maintain as all the parts are still available and very easy to do yourself.
The stsda boxs are getting old now and even sadev have stop producing some parts, I'm pretty sure some people where having trouble getting short fd for them, as sadev would only do them as a batch not individual so long waiting time.

Don't forget the cost of fitting too, you'll need the subframe, mounts and Uniball extenders to accommodate the longer shafts, all mounts up in the end, even with a second hand box and shafts your still taking the best part of 6k fitted! Cost me more than that I think in the end with changing the loom and ecu.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Thanks Ash. Ive asked they guy lots of questions and he doesn't seem to know any answers. Simple stuff like what is the ecu and what selector rods to use, when was it last serviced? can I have some more photos of everything included in the deal and not had any answers. If I did buy it I would get it serviced before fitting. How much is the st75? Cheers

 

[EVOgone]

I seconded what James is saying! St75 much stronger box and much easier to maintain as all the parts are still available and very easy to do yourself.
The stsda boxs are getting old now and even sadev have stop producing some parts, I'm pretty sure some people where having trouble getting short fd for them, as sadev would only do them as a batch not individual so long waiting time.

Don't forget the cost of fitting too, you'll need the subframe, mounts and Uniball extenders to accommodate the longer shafts, all mounts up in the end, even with a second hand box and shafts your still taking the best part of 6k fitted! Cost me more than that I think in the end with changing the loom and ecu.

Dont be put off with the STDSA box its great but as people say any sadev will cost a lot and any second hand one will need a full service and won't be cheap unless your really lucky. You can still get all the parts for the STDSA, final drives which was an issue can be had from gripper and fit the box, you can even fit a gripper diff and run std shaft and front suspension set up.

Personally if your starting out don't spend your money on this and get a gripper diff with the lowest final drive (but get solid engine mount as soft ones will kill your box). Had this in the pink rally car and nearly won the event out right a few times but we did have 240bhp and Ohlins and alcons etc. sequential is the last thing on your list.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Ive heard gripper diffs are good. I broke then engine mount last weekend so have already ordered a solid one. It had new GAZ adjustable coil overs all round and EBC yellow stuff pads and disks before the event last week. So its ok for brakes and handling. As I see it the weakest point in terms of it being competitive is the gear ratios. I need to drop into 1st a lot and then I keep crunching into 2nd or I have to spend an extra second making sure its gone in. Either way feels to me like I am losing 1 second every time I change gear. It's really frustrating. I'd have a H pattern dog box but cant find one which made me think a sequential Sadev or similar would probably be the best option. The one I'm looking at already has an Avanti diff. Don't know what they are like?

 

[EVOgone]

Ive heard gripper diffs are good. I broke then engine mount last weekend so have already ordered a solid one. It had new GAZ adjustable coil overs all round and EBC yellow stuff pads and disks before the event last week. So its ok for brakes and handling. As I see it the weakest point in terms of it being competitive is the gear ratios. I need to drop into 1st a lot and then I keep crunching into 2nd or I have to spend an extra second making sure its gone in. Either way feels to me like I am losing 1 second every time I change gear. It's really frustrating. I'd have a H pattern dog box but cant find one which made me think a sequential Sadev or similar would probably be the best option. The one I'm looking at already has an Avanti diff. Don't know what they are like?

Dont buy the one with an a avanti LSD in. It will need a to be rebuilt and won't be cheep. Get solid mounts both top mounts and a solid dogbone and PMS shifter to take the slop out and it will feel a thousand times better. Get a lsd ad and final drive it's as good as getting 50 bhp. Yellow stuff pads are terrible ds3000 RC6 far better choice.

this was my old car...


http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?642939-LATEST-RALLY-REPORT-PINK-cup-rally-car

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

I will get a dog boner as well then. What is a PMS shifter I will price up a gripper LSD and CWP. Can you recommend any suppliers? And you are right about yellow stuff pads. I read reviews and they came up as being a good option but I'm not very impressed with the fronts or rears. Even on new disks they aren't very good. They need to get hot before they work properly. Also when these pads are fubar I'm going to look into new callipers all round I don't rate the standard ones. Can you recommend any? just looking at the photo of your car. I co-drove for you last minute years ago at 3 sisters.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

I priced up a gripper diff and with final drive cones out to around £1500. I am waiting for them to come back to me regarding the choice of ratio. I have a spare box sitting here so can fit to that.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I can supply a brand new gripper with your choice of final drive for £1425 delivered. Let me know if your interested robjohnsonrallying

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Hi Northy, I'm interested. What final drives are available? From the advice I've had lowest would be best.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Hi Northy, I'm interested. What final drives are available? From the advice I've had lowest would be best.

Hi mate. I'd have to make the call to gripper, but it's whatever's available from them mate. Your probably as well with the lowest one they do as you don't need the top speed.

 

[BIGASH]

5.25 is the shortest they do from memory

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

http://youtu.be/50aa0zJRF0U

Pauleds was kind enough to post the attached video with his car on ratio 13/60. Looking at the brief of the website they do the following ratios 12/63, 13/59, 14/60I think mine can go 12/63 for clubman rallying

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Don't need to get a Sadev just yet then, just get a Gripper diff and 13/60 CWP, it makes one hell of a difference. I fitted one to mine last month for Sprints and Hillclimbs and its so much better!

http://youtu.be/50aa0zJRF0U

Hi mate. I'd have to make the call to gripper, but it's whatever's available from them mate. Your probably as well with the lowest one they do as you don't need the top speed.

Ok thanks. I'll have one with the 12/63 CWP. What is the delivery time? Can you PM your email address. Thanks

 

[Pauleds]

Say goodbye to your 1st gear with that, I wouldn't want to go much shorter than the 13/60 I fitted and I'm not running very much power. My engine is old and tired at 172k miles and only 131bhp at the wheels and you can see from the video it's still quite short 1st gear.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ok thanks. I'll have one with the 12/63 CWP. What is the delivery time? Can you PM your email address. Thanks

Sound. I'll find out the availability of the cw&p and drop you a pm when I know mate.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Say goodbye to your 1st gear with that, I wouldn't want to go much shorter than the 13/60 I fitted and I'm not running very much power. My engine is old and tired at 172k miles and only 131bhp at the wheels and you can see from the video it's still quite short 1st gear.

That's the downside of running a gripper and lower cw&p unfortunately mate. It's all about the trade offs. You ideally want a long 1st gear to get the car moving and up to some decent speed, then the remaining gears nice and close to keep the car in the power band.

 

[Pauleds]

Got to be said im very happy with the gripper and gearing on mine now, I could just do with more power to push it along!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Got to be said im very happy with the gripper and gearing on mine now, I could just do with more power to push it along!

That's the expensive bit! Lol

 

[Pauleds]

Within reason, if I just dropped a fresher engine I would gain a bit but this engine will have to do for now.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Don't need to get a Sadev just yet then, just get a Gripper diff and 13/60 CWP, it makes one hell of a difference. I fitted one to mine last month for Sprints and Hillclimbs and its so much better!

http://youtu.be/50aa0zJRF0U

That's the downside of running a gripper and lower cw&p unfortunately mate. It's all about the trade offs. You ideally want a long 1st gear to get the car moving and up to some decent speed, then the remaining gears nice and close to keep the car in the power band.

I'd like to see a video of the lower gearing so i'll have a look. I need it for coming out of bends into short straights. Did your needle go all the way around in 1st Paul? Cant quite see it in the footage.