Soft Spring With Hard Damper? Chip?

[Gally]

More a general question as I know people who have swapped hard springs for lower but softer springs. Of course I understand the work the dampers have to do increases shortening the life of it.

I understand some track people actually prefer that? Softly sprung with hard damping.

I'm guessing road harshness comes mostly from the damping though? Hence the name?

 

[Gally]

Anyone?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Are you asking if its ok to run a softer spring than the one that normally comes with that damper?

If so, its just totally dependant on the specific spring and specific damper in question, one worry though is that you will get too much travel and hit the bump stops, another is that you will be putting more load through the shock itself which can prematurely wear the seals.

Unlikely to be a catastrophic failure though, so perfectly safe for trial and error IMHO.

 

[Gally]

Yeah i've read up a lot about it in regards to damper wear. Was more compatibility.

I'm thinking just a lowered spring with the same spec rate wise would be better for my idea rather than go softer as it won't soften the ride as the damping clearly comes from the damper obv. A softer spring is really just going to affect roll etc more than actual ride.

Hmmm.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Trouble is if you go lower on the same rate, you risk bottoming out still, unless you are only talking 10mm or so?

 

[Gally]

Sorry yeah I understand, so you're saying to go lower you stiffen up the spring? Hmmm.

I was thinking at least 20mm.

Coilovers are an option tbh but a bit of hassle and expense tbf.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sorry yeah I understand, so you're saying to go lower you stiffen up the spring? Hmmm.

Because the damper rod is now more pressed in to begin with due to being sat at a lower height it means that unless the spring is harder, when it compresses under load (cornering or bump in the road etc) it will mean the damper rod moves further into the shock body, and hence potentially too far.

I was thinking at least 20mm.

Coilovers are an option tbh but a bit of hassle and expense tbf.

You will have a similar issue with coilovers if you want to have them soft and low, hit a big bump or take a corner too hard and the soft spring will allow too much movement and you will either catch the arch on the tyre or have some other problem like the damper becoming damaged.

You cant have less movement for travel, and no more resistance to travel, and not expect to run out of travel basically.

If you want it lower, then it means less movement available, which means you have to have a spring that moves less.

 

[Gally]

Thanks very much Chip, much appreciated and food for thought.

So in layman's terms how do things like Eibach springs work so well with standard dampers?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Because they are stiffer.

 

[Gally]

Layman's terms Tony style!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yep stiffer means they move less distance. Although you can end up under damped and crashy if you go too hard (like apex springs on non cup shocks)

 

[Djw John]

Progressive springs like Eibachs must suit you more than the concrete ones like Apex surely?

I know the Eibachs for the Clio are a bit stiffer than standard but until you really ramp up the pace they don't feel too bad. Custom made progressive springs for a limited run car could be tricky to source though.

 

[Gally]

It's definitely not for the Clio. On a side note the Eibachs are superb with the sachs.

The T does sit too high as standard looks wise.

The springs will be for the next project. I know of someone who has a set fitted already.

 

[Djw John]

No I know its not for the Clio, but its the only car I've driven with progressive springs on.

I'm assuming you want to lower the new FRP but whilst maintaining what ride comfort is expected from it. From what I remember of my wee spin in the last one a set of pregressives would be more than ideal for it. Full soft would run into the problems highlighted above, progressive would give the best of both worlds.

I guess if you really wanted to you could get some coilover style threads and associated locknuts welded onto the standard shocks at a lower height with progressive springs and smaller bump stops but I would figure thats maybe a step too far.

 

[Gally]

Yeah if I was going that far just coilovers would be the answer (they can be fitted in a way).

Hmmm i can tell you one thing, and custom springs won't be stiffer than what's on the car.

Bare in mind you drove it before I fitted the new shocks, springs etc. The Trophy has set me up well to move back into Frp ride comfort. Going straight from the TT back into Frp might have been too big a shock!

I'll update the thread. Just waiting to hear back from the guy who already has a set fitted. Funnily enough it was me who put him in touch with the guys who made the springs.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Layman's terms Tony style!

​That's what you wanted.