Stage rally forums etc

[shiftspark]

I am looking at getting back into single venue rallies as my son wants to CoDrive but can’t seem to find any decent forums etc

Ive had a quote to hire an MX5 for events so just turn up and drive but I think by the time I’ve done 3 or so I could have my own car.

Anyone use any forums or is everything on Facebook these days which I loath to use.

@massivewangers @Nathan Evans

Cheers

 

[Twingo 1??]

Tbh I don't know of any good rally forums these days. I keep an eye on the British rally forum but that's it. There is always some cheap ish cars floating about and like you say they probably cost the same as 2/3 hire events.
Don't know where you are in the country but there are some cracking events have been announced for next year.

 

[Pauleds]

Hope youve got deep pockets.

I miss motorsport but not the faff and expense that went with it.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

The British Rally Forum is about the only one really, but it's not that great anymore.

Most of it is done through Facebook now, which definitely has its good and bad points.

How much were you quoted for the hire out of interest? I've been wondering about hiring something, but I got a quote on a Fiesta R2 and it made my bum twitch 😂

I think car choice depends a bit on the type of events you want to do. There are some bargains out there, but also some real crap unfortunately.

 

[shiftspark]

I dunno Paul but £300 for 50 miles beats 6 miles at Harewood hill climb weekend. I know it will cost lots more in fuel tyres damage etc and no I don’t have deep pockets as looking at standard mk2 mx5 or just add safety gear to my mini.

 

[shiftspark]

£1000 to hire car plus fuel plus compulsory insurance £3-400 but has £2k excess. Also pay for damage etc not sure if that covers blown engines or gear boxes though.

 

[Pauleds]

I originally looked at hiring to do IOM but just built a new car instead. At least with buying or building a car you should always still have value in it when you move on. Think if i was going again i would look at a quick 1400 something as cars generally closer in the class. As soon as you go bigger engine there is a lot more cars out there and money talks.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Have you considered targa rallies? Might be a good starting point, as is on a much lower budget and requires a lot of the same skills. If you enjoy it, you could always step up from there.

As Paul says, stage rallying has become a bit of an arms race, so it's hard to be competitive without chucking loads of money at it. If you just want to have some fun, it's not too bad though. There's always someone to have a battle with, even further down the order.

A Clio is probably about the best 2.0-litre car in terms of bang per back, or something like a Micra, Corsa or 106 for the smaller capacity classes.

All depends how much you want to spend really. You just have to be careful when buying, as there's a lot of tired stuff out there, and people trying to sell cars for as much as it would cost to build the same thing yourself.

£1000 to hire car plus fuel plus compulsory insurance £3-400 but has £2k excess. Also pay for damage etc not sure if that covers blown engines or gear boxes though.

If it's an MX-5, was that from Sheard? Do they make you pay for tyres? What about servicing and transport etc?

I got a quote for a 1600 Fiesta R2 for a round of the MSN Circuit Rally Championship and it was about £5k I think. Silly money really. A shame, because hiring would be quite convenient for me for now.

 

[shiftspark]

Yes it is Paul Sheard, not sure on tyres but it is arrive and drive. He’s trying to sort out a bit of a test if I can tag onto an event in December so will see.
Any class has a top car in and a 1400 Nova was running top 10 for a while at Oulton park the other week. I saw it in the garage and it’s running proflex dampers and was very well prepared.
I am not sure on the targa stuff but i will have a look at them. I am going to watch at 3 sisters this weekend as there is a stage rally on so I can hopefully get some info from the guys running mx5’s as there are around 5/6 running.

 

[RSRowe]

Is the Stage rally on the Saturday?
It’s the Knutsford Targa on Sunday

 

[shiftspark]

Sunday 21st.

 

[JohnnyE]

You need a decent cup mate lol
If your going Sunday let us know might pop down for hours u can buy us a brew

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Yes it is Paul Sheard, not sure on tyres but it is arrive and drive. He’s trying to sort out a bit of a test if I can tag onto an event in December so will see.
Any class has a top car in and a 1400 Nova was running top 10 for a while at Oulton park the other week. I saw it in the garage and it’s running proflex dampers and was very well prepared.
I am not sure on the targa stuff but i will have a look at them. I am going to watch at 3 sisters this weekend as there is a stage rally on so I can hopefully get some info from the guys running mx5’s as there are around 5/6 running.

If you're doing circuit events, you won't be very hard on tyres, but I would expect there to be some charge for them. I'd happily hire a car for a few SV events, but there aren't many entry-level options out there sadly, and I think some folk are a bit cheeky with the prices. I bet it makes life so much easier though. Preparing and trailering the car, setting up and pulling down your service area etc etc, is a lot of work and energy.

As you say, every class has its top cars. The Newton's Nova is definitely one of them, and they are always quick. The MX-5s have their own class on that championship I think though, but it only really matters if you're actually looking to try and win something. Otherwise it's just about enjoying it. You don't have to spend loads though. @Nathan Evans and his brother have shown that you can get decent results in a fairly simple car.

I'd definitely consider a targa or two. Entries are more like £50-60, and the cars are built to road rally rules, so much simpler and cheaper. For most events, it could probably be standard to be honest. You should still get 30+ miles of running too so, in value terms they're probably about the best currently. If you start with the right car, you can always put upgrade it to stage spec further down the road. My old yellow Escort was used on a targa recently.

 

[mikekean]

My advice if you are looking at getting into SS rallies, but have a tighter budget for running the car, would be to invest in a reliable platform from the start. An MX5 is a pretty reliable car as standard, but it's doesn't really have much scope to increase performance without getting into engine conversions. Then you will start breaking diffs and snapping shafts.

I would go with a Honda Type-R of some sort if FWD or BMW if you want a RWD (e36 would be your best bet). Neither are likely to win their class, but they have good performance and are dependable cars that dont require much maintenance. I have a mate with an Intergra DC2, pretty much standard car, suspension included, he does dirt and tarmac rallies in it. Always been 100% reliable and costs him very little to run, he's not battling for class the win that often, but does pick up a 2nd or 3rd frequently. It cost him a bit more initially to build than say a Fiesta or a Clio, but it's paying off big time now as he's finishing events and not having many big bills. DC2's are pretty expensive now, but and EP3 would still be decent or try find a K-swapped EK4 or similar.

Everyone will have there own opinion, but I consider reliability to be the most important quality of a rally car even if it means sacrificing some outright speed. A rally is a reliability trial, many cars will go out during an event, if you can make it to the end you often end up surpassing your predicted result.

 

[Nathan Evans]

If you want to hire I’ve got 2 clios here, take your pick? 😂

I’d personally build a car or buy one done instead of hiring an mx5 by the time you’ve done a few rallies you could of bought it

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

If you want to hire I’ve got 2 clios here, take your pick? 😂

I’d personally build a car or buy one done instead of hiring an mx5 by the time you’ve done a few rallies you could of bought it

How much?

Actually, I don't know if I'd want to hire a car from you. It would be too embarrassing to realise how much slower I am

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Couple more potential options. Silverstone Rally School have a couple of hire cars available - a Micra and a Civic. And you can hire cars from the guys that run the Mini Cooper Rally championship.

 

[Nathan Evans]

Couple more potential options. Silverstone Rally School have a couple of hire cars available - a Micra and a Civic. And you can hire cars from the guys that run the Mini Cooper Rally championship.

Ex evans rallying civic too for that matter 😂

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Ex evans rallying civic too for that matter 😂

Is it your brother's old car? I was going to ask them for more detail about it, because they just said "2.0 Civic"

 

[Nathan Evans]

Is it your brother's old car? I was going to ask them for more detail about it, because they just said "2.0 Civic"

Yeah it went to Dave Paveley, and he’s the one running those micras for them.
Not a bad car but not the easiest to drive

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Yeah it went to Dave Paveley, and he’s the one running those micras for them.
Not a bad car but not the easiest to drive

Interesting. Another name from rallying history.

Why didn't you think the Civic was very easy to drive? I'm surprised there aren't more out there really. The engines are good and they seem quite popular in Europe.

 

[Nathan Evans]

The only place you might find a few is Finland and Estonia and I wouldn’t say they’re that popular.

They’re good in the fast long corners due to the longer wheel base but not the most nimble things

A quick rack would help them for sure and the engine is up for debate. Good for bhp and noise but no torque

 

[mikekean]

The only place you might find a few is Finland and Estonia and I wouldn’t say they’re that popular.

They’re good in the fast long corners due to the longer wheel base but not the most nimble things

A quick rack would help them for sure and the engine is up for debate. Good for bhp and noise but no torque

Crap turning radius as well! I had a pretty hot EP3 track car with 260hp, plate diff and a load of nice bits when my STDSA blew up, I very nearly canned the Clio to build that instead. The lack of lock put me off in the end, definitely makes them less competitive. If your not worried about being ultra competitive I think it's still a good base for a reliable car, a bit dual purpose as well could easily convert to circuit car where they are very competitive.

A set of TDI North cams really wakes the K20 up down low as well, with a shorter final drive they have plenty of pull off the bottom. Just have to be a little careful in the wet on the VTEC cross over, bit lively..

 

[shiftspark]

Couple more potential options. Silverstone Rally School have a couple of hire cars available - a Micra and a Civic. And you can hire cars from the guys that run the Mini Cooper Rally championship.

Any idea on prices ?
MSA rang me last week if I had mistakenly ticked the rally license box by mistake as I’ve had Non Race Nat B for so long ! Also noticed a £60 then a £39 charge on my card so he must have noticed after processing it as a RS interclub or whatever they are called now 🙄

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Any idea on prices ?
MSA rang me last week if I had mistakenly ticked the rally license box by mistake as I’ve had Non Race Nat B for so long ! Also noticed a £60 then a £39 charge on my card so he must have noticed after processing it as a RS interclub or whatever they are called now 🙄

I'll find them and post tomorrow.

Mini varied a lot depending on the event.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Any idea on prices ?
MSA rang me last week if I had mistakenly ticked the rally license box by mistake as I’ve had Non Race Nat B for so long ! Also noticed a £60 then a £39 charge on my card so he must have noticed after processing it as a RS interclub or whatever they are called now 🙄

This is for the Silverstone Rally School stuff:

1ltr Nissan Micra

Hire including preparation, fuel, transport to and from venue, part worn tyres, technician, team accommodation is £1950 + VAT plus £1500 + VAT damage deposit. Optional insurance against bodywork damage £250 + VAT

2ltr normally aspirated Honda Civic

Hire including preparation, fuel, transport to and from venue, part worn tyres, technician, team accommodation is £2650 + VAT plus £1500 + VAT damage deposit. Optional insurance against bodywork damage £500 + VAT

Additional costs would be entry fee and your own expenses including accommodation. Navigators can also be supplied at £200 per day if you need one.

Dry hire where you collect and return to our unit in North Wales is Nissan Micra £1350 + VAT and Honda Civic £2250 + VAT. Both plus damage.

And this is for the MINI:

February 20th, Questmead, Tarmac - £1250.00+VAT
March 26th, Rally North Wales, Gravel - £1850.00+VAT
April 17th, Warcop, Cumbria, Tarmac - £1650.00+VAT
May 1st, Leconfield, Tarmac - £1400.00+VAT
May 21st, Plains (Prov), Gravel - £1850.00+VAT
June, Keith Fecker, Weeton, Tarmac - £1500.00+VAT
July 24th, Enville, Anglesey, Tarmac - £1600.00+VAT
August 22nd, Gareth Hall, Bala, Tarmac - £1600.00+VAT
September 9th/10th, Promenade, Tarmac - £1800.00+VAT
TBC, Greystoke. Gravel - £1850.00+VAT
September 16th/17th, Pokerstars, Tarmac - TBA

The above is based on the 2022 championship calendar, but they said they could arrange hire for other events. Not sure what those prices includes but have asked them to clarify, as the SV stuff seems a bit cheaper than Silverstone are charging.

 

[Twingo 1??]

This is for the Silverstone Rally School stuff:



And this is for the MINI:



The above is based on the 2022 championship calendar, but they said they could arrange hire for other events. Not sure what those prices includes but have asked them to clarify, as the SV stuff seems a bit cheaper than Silverstone are charging.

Don't know what I was expecting but the costs seam a lot to hire a car. Especially as the cars are basic and won't use much in the way of consumables. There as always some nice well prepared clio track cars that wouldn't take much to passport and would be ideal in the circuit stuff.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Don't know what I was expecting but the costs seam a lot to hire a car. Especially as the cars are basic and won't use much in the way of consumables. There as always some nice well prepared clio track cars that wouldn't take much to passport and would be ideal in the circuit stuff.

I think a lot of it is covering transport, accommodation etc etc, so paying for the people running the car as much as the car itself.

I know what you mean though, it's not exactly cheap. The idea of just turning up and driving does have appeal though.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Bit more detail on the MINI:

The prices we have sent over to you include the following:
-Car Hire for the event,
-Transportation for the vehicle to the event,
-Full service cover on the event,
-Fuel for the vehicle on the event,
-One set of tyres for the event (plus one spare)
-Insurance for the car on the event (£1,000 insurance excess is collected before the event and returned after the event if the vehicle has occurred no damage)

 

[Nathan Evans]

That quote for a micra is mental 😂 Seriously you can have my clio for that same quote.

 

[mikekean]

Don't know what I was expecting but the costs seam a lot to hire a car. Especially as the cars are basic and won't use much in the way of consumables. There as always some nice well prepared clio track cars that wouldn't take much to passport and would be ideal in the circuit stuff.

It's easy to underestimate maintenance costs, factor in engine and gearbox rebuilds, preventative maintenance on parts known to fail, such as driveshafts, wheel bearings, alternators etc. I had a spreadsheet for running my old Clio, taking into account an engine/gearbox rebuild every 2-3 years, with brake pads, oils/fluids, tyres, entry fees and fuel. It worked out around 2k an event to use the car, not including any unexpected failures/repair costs.

You can push the problem down the road by not doing any preventive maintenance. If you're only keeping the car a few years this can work, sell the car and move onto the next one. But sometimes it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't..

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Here is a quote I received for a 1.6 R2 Fiesta, just for reference:

MSport Built Fiesta R2 Hire Charge 60 stage miles ,
Inclusive of Service Van , Spares , Hospitality , 2 mechanics = £1800.00
Insurance = £700.00 with excess of £1500
Rally car Fuel = £100.00
Accommodation / food 2 mechanics 2 days = £160.00
Transportation costs (fuel) Approx = £200.00
6 x Very Good Pirelli Tyres = £600.00
--------------
Total £3560.00

Think the above was plus VAT too maybe.

 

[shiftspark]

Thats getting very expensive! The best bet seems to be building your own car if your good with spanner’s etc but then comes the trailer hire or buy , tow car which if you buy one as your everyday transport is a massive compromise day today.
I can see the advantages both ways. Which ever way I go it’s going to cost ££££ I can see me back to sprinting next year.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Yeah it's a very expensive and time consuming game. I'd definitely recommend giving a targa a go first. Easy enough to get a car together for that and event costs are way lower. If you enjoy it, you could then think about stage events.

I definitely want to do more rallies but, with living outside the UK, hiring makes way more sense, as I could just fly back and wouldn't have to worry about sorting the car.

Think I'll just do some karting for now, and maybe try to do some autocross and drifting to develop my skills a bit.

 

[Twingo 1??]

Thats getting very expensive! The best bet seems to be building your own car if your good with spanner’s etc but then comes the trailer hire or buy , tow car which if you buy one as your everyday transport is a massive compromise day today.
I can see the advantages both ways. Which ever way I go it’s going to cost ££££ I can see me back to sprinting next year.

There has been plenty of good imput from all so far.
I would be tempted to build something to old group n modern day r1 specification and something you can easily get bits for.
Ford feista st150 or the newer shape zetec s would be a good shout as everything is readily available off the shelf for them.
It was a stupid idea to do my Twingo as its a pain to get uprated bits for without spending a fortune.
I would happily build another Puma as I know what works with them and it was totally reliable and had a 100% finishing record even with the engine sat on 160k on the last event.
Build something simple and drive it to events depending where you are, I could do Otterburn, Warcop easy driven in a rally car. I would be very careful buying second hand as a lot are utterly diabolical under the skin.

 

[shiftspark]

@Twingo 1?? yes I’ve seen loads of track,race ready cars most of which have back seats and carpets out to make them race ready the better ? one with joe blogs cages that are either home made or out of date and unusable.

 

[Twingo 1??]

@Twingo 1?? yes I’ve seen loads of track,race ready cars most of which have back seats and carpets out to make them race ready the better ? one with joe blogs cages that are either home made or out of date and unusable.

What sort of events would you be looking at doing?

 

[shiftspark]

Single venue as have 3 sisters not far away or a step up to Oulton park when funds allow. I’ll have to get out on a targa rally but my Mini is not allowed as it’s forced induction. Still looking for an MX5 locally but all have serious rust issues on front chassis legs and cills.

 

[Twingo 1??]

Mx5 is a good one for them sort of events, I think they lack the suspension travel for events that ain't so smooth. Everything avaliable off the shelf for them so potentially an easier build. For them sort of events possibly converting a well built track car could be a good option also or even race car. Thought there would be plenty of mx5's out there with potential.

 

[jp_lcr]