Standard, Mapped & RSTunner ECU

[MarcB]

After reading a couple of topics regarding ECU's I'm looking to clear something up and understand what can and can't be done.

From what i can see is that if you have an ECU that been mapped by an RSTuner to any of there maps (98 Ron / Pops & Bangs) it can't be remapped by an independent mapper / rolling road as it is then locked, Is this correct ?

If you need or want your car mapped by an independent mapper / rolling road you need a standard ECU that has not been mapped and that is not locked.

Can anyone confirm this and shed some light on this and what options do people have if they have an locked ECU by an RS Tuner ?

 

[koi]

As far as I know it's not locked.

Got the RS tuner 98 RON map on mine and can revert back to the standard map if I want.

 

[MarcB]

As far as I know it's not locked.

Got the RS tuner 98 RON map on mine and can revert back to the standard map if I want.

But do you have the RSTuner to do that ?

Mine has been remapped with the RSTuner and the 98ron map but i do not have the tuner anymore and I'm unsure if i can take it somewhere to get this mapped as it might possibly be locked.

@Diagro is selling a locked 98Ron mapped ECU as i think he has the problem and I'm sure i seen somewhere that there was a car that went to EFI to be mapped had this issue , @Andyrg@ ClioTurbo might know something about this as I "think" his name was mentioned.

 

[Diagro]

As far as I know it's not locked.

Got the RS tuner 98 RON map on mine and can revert back to the standard map if I want.

Yes you can if you use the RStuner and put the Backup you had back on. (It needs to be the Backup file the RStuner made afaik)
But even then i am unsure if its possible for someone else to read the ECU and map it.

But do you have the RSTuner to do that ?

Mine has been remapped with the RSTuner and the 98ron map but i do not have the tuner anymore and I'm unsure if i can take it somewhere to get this mapped as it might possibly be locked.

@Diagro is selling a locked 98Ron mapped ECU as i think he has the problem and I'm sure i seen somewhere that there was a car that went to EFI to be mapped had this issue , @Andyrg@ ClioTurbo might know something about this as I "think" his name was mentioned.

Yep, I am selling it because i dont have the RStuner or the Backup Map file (was silly of me).
So im forced to have the ECU replaced.

 

[MarcB]

I don't have an RS Tuner but i do have the OE map that was sent to me via Henk back in 2013.

Would it be a case of buying an RS Tuner and locking it to my chassis and then uploading this OE map

 

[rich83]

My ECU (Sagem 3000 in the Mk3) was mapped by Engine Dynamics & Henk (aka RS Tuner map). However I took my car to RS Tuning the other week and Paul mapped it fine.

I believe however I had to pay extra for the RS Tuner license key so that Paul could remap it, whereas if he had done it first time around I wouldn't have needed to buy the license key.

 

[DaveDreads]

Every RST is locked to the ECU it remapped, so you can't go around remapping other peoples cars for free, if you went to a garage to get it mapped again and they were using RSTuners, they'd have to buy a licence to use it on your car, then their RST would be locked to your car and they'd have to buy another licence for the next person that drove in.

However if they were using another device or software to remap cars, they could just overwrite the RST map no problem.

 

[realnumber 1]

@Diagro is selling a locked 98Ron mapped ECU as i think he has the problem and I'm sure i seen somewhere that there was a car that went to EFI to be mapped had this issue , @Andyrg@ ClioTurbo might know something about this as I "think" his name was mentioned.

I think you might be referring to my car when I had the cams mapped at EFI. Iirc the issues mine had turned out to be a intermittent lambda sensor fault causing the dash light to come on whichever map he put on. This made it look like it wouldn't work correctly but I think a base map from another car will go onto the ECU without issue.

Give EFI a call and Chris will be able to it for you!

 

[MarcB]

@realnumber 1 it possibly was your car buddy.

I just don't want to be taking a car to be mapped to get the best out of it to be told that the ECU is locked and there is nothing i can do about due to the RS tuner being on it

 

[DaveDreads]

It's the RSTuners that are locked to the ecu not the other way round, they'll be able to overwrite the map no problem.

If the ecu's were locked by RST's you wouldn't be able to clear fault codes with a clip tool, seeing as no one has ever said the garage couldn't diagnose their fault code and clear it with a clip, it obviously isn't a problem.

 

[Kaktus]

Quoted from the email received from fastchips.nl after purchasing RSTuner last month:

Loading up our performance calibration will ALWAYS void Factory powertrain Warranty.
Also ECU programming access will be limited to RSTuner VCI (interface) only. Even if you do program it back to stock.
By doing so, you agree to these terms.

Have only used mine to apply the 98Ron map & haven't tried having car mapped elsewhere but the above quote suggests current RSTuner software does lock the ECU from being mapped by anything other than RST. Would be interested to hear if it is actually true/false.

 

[DaveDreads]

Well I stand corrected, that's f*cked up.

 

[MarcB]

Quoted from the email received from fastchips.nl after purchasing RSTuner last month:



Have only used mine to apply the 98Ron map & haven't tried having car mapped elsewhere but the above quote suggests current RSTuner software does lock the ECU from being mapped by anything other than RST. Would be interested to hear if it is actually true/false.

I have spoke to a couple of people in the area that are very good mappers and when i have mentioned about the RS Tuner on my car they have more or less asked what it is or is it then locked and i can't give them an answer as i don't know.
Its a total pain as i bought the car with the map on it and i did have a RS Tuner for a short while but done nothing about it.

Its rather b****cks if everyone who maps there car with an RS Tuner locks the ECU to only accept fast chips.nl stuff.

I new ECU from renault is just shy of £400 and then you have all the coding and setting up to do which I'm guessing won't be cheap and as most people know Henk is not the best with his replys and answers as he never actually feels you the answer to the question you have asked.

 

[Diagro]

I just bought an ecu set for 60 mate.
stock software on it
Problem solved

 

[dablk]

Like wise Marc, I would give Chris at EFi a shout. I am sure he will give you an instant answer. I don't understand the these things personally. Is there however a difference to trying to tweek the map. Ie mod Henks one. And just simply wiping the whole thing and sticking a clean start on?

I spoke to Chris when I got my trophy about one day RRing her and if need be putting a factory fresh map back on, if he looked and found something not Oem about it. He didn't seem to think it as an issue.

 

[rich83]

Its rather b****cks if everyone who maps there car with an RS Tuner locks the ECU to only accept fast chips.nl stuff.

This is not the case, I have mentioned earlier that Paul at RS Tuning mapped my car fine despite having a Henk/fastchips dervied map on it first. From what I understand, Paul had to get an unlock key from Henk and then use the original RS Tuner device rather than his own (functionaly the same, just differ in licenses). But there was no beef with mapping it. I think Paul said it was £50 extra for the license, I had other work done though and tbh only paid attention to the final bill.

 

[Diagro]

This is not the case, I have mentioned earlier that Paul at RS Tuning mapped my car fine despite having a Henk/fastchips dervied map on it first. From what I understand, Paul had to get an unlock key from Henk and then use the original RS Tuner device rather than his own (functionaly the same, just differ in licenses). But there was no beef with mapping it. I think Paul said it was £50 extra for the license, I had other work done though and tbh only paid attention to the final bill.

Then why have two mappers said to me that they cannot do it because its locked? Thats the reason why i got a replacement ECU. (tbh cheaper than licence and time to unlock if its possible)

 

[rich83]

Ring RS Tuning then and find out the exact process, I'm just recalling what I remember but I'm not a mapper and nor do I have the tools. But my ECU has now been mapped by 3 different places so it is possible 100%.

 

[trenace188]

My cars locked with the rstuner .
I took my car to a couple local tuner he tried all sorts to map it . Flashing it soldering it . Adjusting henk maps .
I still have my rstuner with standard p.n.b's and Ron 98 on my laptop .
Changing maps made no difference it was still locked with the rstuner.
I emailed henk asking a few questions (prior)
He said take it to rstuning in Leeds they can do it just take your interface .
I asked if i could take it else where for a remap he said yer they should be able to do it just take your interface and rename your map file to mapfile.cal
So It's seems like only a few can mappers will be able to get around the rstuner .

 

[MarcB]

So it sounds like once you have bought and mapped your car with an RSTuner they more or less have you by the short and curlys as more or less no one can do anything with it.

 

[trenace188]

Pretty much mate yes
Don't know why he isn't doing custom maps at the min .
So yer it's down to a select few .
I've just orderd a new ecu set up cheap as chips .

 

[dablk]

Well thats defo not widely advertised! Hope you get sorted Marc.

 

[realnumber 1]

@MarcR™ Sounds like you just need to give Chris and/or Paul a ring to get a definitive answer tbh.

Seems like an expensive exercise for the probable little to no gains even if you can get it done more locally imo.

 

[dablk]

Marc, would bet you could post Chris your Ecu and save you a drive to Widnes..

Widnes.. its a bit like Dundee if you get my drift.

I know he flashed Clio Turbo Andy's back to factory after he had his Trophy mishap. Well at least I hope he did as its now sat in my loft.

 

[MarcB]

I will be giving RSTuning a call today to speak to them regarding this as the time i buy an RSTuner, Unlock code and maps I'm going to be the same as getting it mapped by an independent.

I just think that anyone who has bought a car with a RSTuner map (98 Ron / Pops & Bangs) is now stick with something that they might not want or might want to change and thats little unfair.
As i say i bought my car near on 4 1/2 years ago with this so called 98 Ron map on it but i don't see any difference to driving a normal 172/182.

 

[Diagro]

I will be giving RSTuning a call today to speak to them regarding this as the time i buy an RSTuner, Unlock code and maps I'm going to be the same as getting it mapped by an independent.

I just think that anyone who has bought a car with a RSTuner map (98 Ron / Pops & Bangs) is now stick with something that they might not want or might want to change and thats little unfair.
As i say i bought my car near on 4 1/2 years ago with this so called 98 Ron map on it but i don't see any difference to driving a normal 172/182.

I find there is a lot of difference mate. I have fitted a non mapped ECU and the Torque is crap now lol. Also throttle response is laggy now.

Mines being mapped by Htec / Dynodaze in Hinckley on the 26th Not a crap map either, they keep the car for 2 days and do loads of runs on the rolling road to get it right.

 

[MarcB]

Just got off the phone to Paul and I can 100% confirm that Paul has said that if you have used an RSTuner from fast chips it has locked your ECU and its needs to be unlocked for a mapper to remap the car.

Paul at RS tuning in Leeds said that he contacts fastchips.nl to get an unlock code so he can map the car.

 

[trenace188]

I find there is a lot of difference mate. I have fitted a non mapped ECU and the Torque is crap now lol. Also throttle response is laggy now.


Mines being mapped by Htec / Dynodaze in Hinckley on the 26th :smile: Not a crap map either, they keep the car for 2 days and do loads of runs on the rolling road to get it right.

My ecu set up got delivered today . How did you find swapping everything over? Easy enough .

 

[Diagro]

My ecu set up got delivered today . How did you find swapping everything over? Easy enough .

Easy mate. takes all of 20 mins

 

[Martin_172]

paul at RS Tuning used an RS Tuner to map my car so that the map was locked and no one could download it from my ECU and "steal" his map. Makes sence.

 

[MarcB]

paul at RS Tuning used an RS Tuner to map my car so that the map was locked and no one could download it from my ECU and "steal" his map. Makes sence.

I understand that but locking an ECU is rather OTT.
Surly is a way that the map can't be taken / copied and yet the ECU can still be reset or changed or mapped by an independent mapper without going to all this hassle.

 

[Martin_172]

I understand that but locking an ECU is rather OTT.
Surly is a way that the map can't be taken / copied and yet the ECU can still be reset or changed or mapped by an independent mapper without going to all this hassle.

it was a custom map with different injectors that only RS Tuning have managed to perfect.
I get where your coming from though, must be an easier way that the ECU can be re written but not read from!

 

[Bendunn]

The ecu locking is a pain, quickest and cost effective way was to change be Ecu to a Virgin one on mine, RS tuner was a good map but what a pain when I camed the car!

 

[Diagro]

The ecu locking is a pain, quickest and cost effective way was to change be Ecu to a Virgin one on mine, RS tuner was a good map but what a pain when I camed the car!

Thats exactly the reason i bought a non mapped ECU. Catcams fitted and RStuner map no longer wanted

 

[Scoff]

Hi lads, I tackle this problem by restoring the ECU to factory software so that a custom map can then be created. I've had to do this a few times of late with owners having a fastchip map installed without owning the tool (or original files) to restore it themselves. With a fastchip map installed the I/O via normal OBDII is junk. There's certainly no need to swap the ECU guys.

 

[MarcB]

@Scoff

Is it just a case of getting the OE Ecu in the car with the fast chips map reset ?

If so how is this done and can it be done from someone with a clip ?

 

[Scoff]

it was a custom map with different injectors that only RS Tuning have managed to perfect.
I get where your coming from though, must be an easier way that the ECU can be re written but not read from!

Sadly there really is no way to prevent reading by those who know what they are doing. But as the current systems stand (RStuner, etc) it is not such a big job to clear the whole lot and return the ECU to factory original so that normal read / write can be done

 

[Scoff]

Not as such Marc - I have (I think!) each and every version of the factory Renault ECU software in full. That's to say the entire ECU contents, not just it's map. Putting the ECU in to boot mode means you can read & write it's actual firmware and overwrite the RStuner (or whatever else is on there) with a Renault original. Then to reset the immobiliser and away it goes

 

[Kaktus]

Sadly there really is no way to prevent reading by those who know what they are doing. But as the current systems stand (RStuner, etc) it is not such a big job to clear the whole lot and return the ECU to factory original so that normal read / write can be done :smile:

Does flashing the backup made with RST before applying any map allow the ECU to be programmed by other applications or is it still locked to RST (as stated by fastchips in the email quoted earlier in the thread)?

 

[trenace188]

Not as such Marc - I have (I think!) each and every version of the factory Renault ECU software in full. That's to say the entire ECU contents, not just it's map. Putting the ECU in to boot mode means you can read & write it's actual firmware and overwrite the RStuner (or whatever else is on there) with a Renault original. Then to reset the immobiliser and away it goes :smile:

Where abouts can you do such a thing .