Still handling issues

[DomP182]

I've changed so much on my front end but still got some unnerving handling at times. I've personally replaced-
Rack bushes
Wishbones
Inner track rod ends
Outer track rod ends
Topmount bearings

On the rear I've had new shocks circa 20k ago. Unless the rears are shot again (can't see any leaking) the front shocks are about the only thing left. I've never experienced worn front shocks so I'm not sure what it feels like but they. Any ideas or in put on this?

 

[hipwell]

Crap tyres?

 

[bashracing]

How does it feel odd?
what's your geometry like?

 

[DomP182]

Had the alignment done on a 4 wheel hunter thingy. The fronts are p zero nero but the backs are acelera (don't ask) it feels like the front wants to carry on rather than turn in

 

[car.crash]

Show us your geometry print out

 

[DomP182]

Will do tomorrow when I go to my car.

 

[STEVE.M]

Had the alignment done on a 4 wheel hunter thingy. The fronts are p zero nero but the backs are acelera (don't ask) it feels like the front wants to carry on rather than turn in

No comment.

 

[DomP182]

Ok so I put the crap tyres on which I now realise was false economy because at the time I wasn't exactly flushed with cash. My bad

 

[DomP182]

 

[STEVE.M]

View attachment 175078

This is your 182?
Here`s some reading:
http://aligncraft.com/terms/terms.html
and some figures.
C:\Users\Stephen\Pictures\Car & servicing\Clio Sport Technical Manuals\Clio geometry.pdf
It would appear the ET35 rims on the 172 cup require a reduction in toe out.

 

[imprezaworks]

Et35 rims?

 

[DomP182]

Yeah my 182. Did my photo of my alignment work? Can't see it on my phone.

All that info is lost on me tbh. As is some of the alignment printout, it doesn't suggest what was before/after or ideal readings

 

[DomP182]

Totally standard cup packed 182 except for rusty Eibach springs

 

[imprezaworks]

Cup packed wheels arnt et35. You have the standard clio wheels? And the photo works

When ever I've had my tracking done they have allways had matching tyres mate

 

[imprezaworks]

And the settings look fine

 

[STEVE.M]

Et35 rims?

I did specify 172 Cup. Standard 182 ET43 may have been changed.

 

[imprezaworks]

Cup wheels are 38?.

 

[Martin_172]

i bought a 182 that came with they acelera tyres, dangerous! should be illegal

 

[DomP182]

I have cup pack anthracite 182 alloys, what sort of behavior did you get from your acelera's? I wonder if they have really soft sidewalls causing roll through corners?

 

[imprezaworks]

I bet if you had matching tyres the issue would go

 

[STEVE.M]

And the settings look fine

Strangely, that spec sheet is stating toe out for fronts, which is confusing me, as I`m sure mine has always been set with -12 minutes toe in.
I`ll check with them tomorrow.
Sorry, just noticed spec sheet won`t open.

 

[imprezaworks]

It is toeing in looking at that sheet

 

[DomP182]

Wish I'd never bought those acelera's, real false economy and now I have to shell out on 2 more pzero's

 

[imprezaworks]

Best thing you can add to these or any car really is decent matching tyres. Point of contact etc.

 

[STEVE.M]

It is toeing in looking at that sheet

True, I`ve always been led to believe toe out makes them nervous & twitchy though.

 

[imprezaworks]

It does.

 

[DomP182]

Are my settings ok then? Can it really be just my cheapo rear tyres?

 

[imprezaworks]

From that picture it looks fine. I'm no expert though

 

[imprezaworks]

 

[imprezaworks]

Mine

 

[STEVE.M]

Mine

Found the thread with Renault specs.
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/su...ped-and-none-none-rs-mk2-2-and-mk1-v6.133900/

 

[imprezaworks]

Will have a look later

 

[flebay]

Factory settings 182/182cup/Trophy Toe-out 12' +or- 5'
182 wheels in all variants are ET45
Also the print out should say Clio ll Phase 3 the operator has selected the phase 2 172 settings.

 

[npt]

if the shocks are badly worn then it'll never handle as it should, i would have them all replaced, standard renault cup ones are very cheap for these cars

 

[Martin_172]

I have cup pack anthracite 182 alloys, what sort of behavior did you get from your acelera's? I wonder if they have really soft sidewalls causing roll through corners?

they were that bad I couldn't feel what the car was doing under me on the test drive, I had no idea how good or bad condition the suspension/steering was - I bought it based on the condition of the rest and luckily turned out all good! lol

 

[DomP182]

My front shocks are on 79k so probably shot

 

[STEVE.M]

33 psi front,30 psi rear?:smile:

 

[Flat Eric]

Interesting to see this. I should get mine back soon after having steering rack replaced. Will be glad if that was a contributing factor to iffy handling.

 

[charltjr]

Sounds like you're describing understeer, the front end washes out wide under cornering? Is there any pattern to when it happens, is it particular corners or is it random?

Understeer is usually a lack of front end grip which is odd since you have crap tyres on the back and decent ones on the front. Having nearly new rear shocks and very, very tired front ones could cause it I suppose. I've had that once many years ago and it wasn't pleasant, rear end felt quite planted but the front was floaty and unpredictable.

I guess it could be the stability control systems working overtime, if you have a lot less grip at the back than the front then the car will want to oversteer. They're designed to prevent that because understeer is the easier condition for most drivers to control so will try to prevent oversteer to keep the car under control, but that can sometimes induce understeer. Bit unusual again though. You could try switching the systems off, but not something I'd try on the road if you've got iffy handling already as you might find the rear snaps round on you.

Normally I'd suggest swapping the tyres front to rear but that will probably just give you understeer all the time. It might still be worth trying, maybe the Pirellis are actually damaged in some way.

You should have the best tyres on the back anyway, so maybe try that as a next step since it will cost you nothing. You'll have limited front grip but if the unpredictability goes away then it was probably the lack of rear grip compared to the front mucking you up.

 

[DomP182]

Yes I've checked tyre pressures a few times, alls fine there.
I was thinking of doing a front to back swap to see what difference it made.
One thing I haven't mentioned is that I also get a bouncy sensation but not as basic as when one of my rear shocks went, that was horrendous