Strange Steering - 182 with Epas

[sbridgey]

Was at cadwell park yesterday in my 182 with an Epas conversion and i found that the steering is really quite odd and nothing like i remember my old 172 being like.

I did my first trackday in the car at Donnington and found the steering was unnerving when turning left, it would just want to drift wide, then it wouldn't hold a straight line down the straights. Decided it was most likely the alignment so I got that sorted, had massive toe in, so changed it to a slight toe out which i think is about right.

I expected the car to be totally transformed for Cadwell and it was a load better, but turning left up through coppice the car wouldn't hold it's line at all and i had to all lock to just over a 1/4 of a turn to avoid going onto the grass! It also needed quite a bit of steering input to keep it running straight, occasionally i felt i had to apply loads of lock to just pull it to the left-hand side of the track.

The other thing to note was a knocking sound that developed throughout the day during hard left cornering, and eventually just ended up sounding quite bad from the left hand front of the car, i am guessing that it is probably the driveshaft and i'm not sure it's related to the iffy steering?

i have attached the print out of the alignment settings.

 

[Daz...]

Lower balljoint could be a culprit for something like that. When one of mine went it started knocking and the steering was a bit erratic.

Driveshafts tend to click when pulling away on full lock when they’re on their way out, and I don’t believe it would cause the steering to be like that.

Ideally you want to be checking it all over to see what has any unwanted play.

 

[sbridgey]

Are there any area's in particular to check? I am thinking that i might fit the epas rack i have in the garage instead of the standard one that is just capped off i think?

 

[Daz...]

A general spanner check to make sure everything is tight, and use a small pry bar to check for excessive movement in the joints and bushes.

If you’re swapping the rack out then id be inclined to put new inner and outer tie rods on it before fitting. Unless yours are relatively new obviously.

 

[sbridgey]

I am not really sure how old it all is, i have a pile of receipts with the car and it was completely rebuilt by the previous owner during lockdown 1 so i am hoping that he put new tie rods and ball joints on. But yeah i agree it is certainly worth a check over.

Was just watching some video's of clios at cadwell and it seemed like i had to use twice as much lock through coppice and make much bigger steering inputs on the straights to follow the slight curves.

 

[Usr117063]

Are there any area's in particular to check? I am thinking that i might fit the epas rack i have in the garage instead of the standard one that is just capped off i think?

Thats part of your problem, you will have to turn the wheel loads to get the wheels actually turning. Also the other part of your problem is the epas itself, it also requires excessive steering input to move the wheels. Combined with the 1.5 and 2 deg caster it must feel awful. I would fit the epas rack and get back to at least 3deg caster before you try it again.

This is the play you get when you loop a hpas rack. Although Ive disconnected it from the torsion bar so it wouldnt be play like you see but it can still twist that amount.

 

[sbridgey]

Do i need to get adjustable top mounts to sort the caster out?

 

[Usr117063]

Do i need to get adjustable top mounts to sort the caster out?

Yeah or wishbones

 

[sbridgey]

So if i change to the spare rack, think it's a dci rack, which problems should that resolve?

initial input required i guess? but will it also resolve the excessive steering input required to move the wheels you suggest that you mention?

 

[Usr117063]

So if i change to the spare rack, think it's a dci rack, which problems should that resolve?

initial input required i guess? but will it also resolve the excessive steering input required to move the wheels you suggest that you mention?

Will solve video I posted which is a fair bit of wasted steering input. Theres nothing else you can do if you go epas other than making sure the rack is a manual rack.
The epas had too much deadzone for my liking so I got rid of it. But for most people it doesnt bother them.

 

[sbridgey]

Is it easy to revert back to hydraulic steering?

I can try swapping the rack over to the spare one i have, i take it an dci/1.2 rack is equatable to a manual rack?

 

[Usr117063]

Well I cant say exactly if its easy or not as Ive just put in hydraulic with custom lines which made the job a lot easier than using standard lines. See how you get on with the manual rack first it might solve enough of the issue you are feeling.

Some dci racks will have different steering ratios, there are some threads talking about them so worth a look.