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Turbos.
Turbos.
They don't list it on their website anymore if that is the case, they do a 360ps V6 conversion though!
http://www.novidem.de/
http://www.novidem.de/
Novidem kept cracking the inlet manifold apparently.
I emailed them a while ago and they said they werent selling the conversion due to the cost of the car vs cost of the conversion.
I would love to supercharge mine but no one makes a conversion and although BenR will do it you would be talking lots of cash as it would be a one off development job.
I have heard the Mark Fish conversion is BS apparently he is not really into engines and mainly does car prep cages susp setup etc.?
I emailed them a while ago and they said they werent selling the conversion due to the cost of the car vs cost of the conversion.
I would love to supercharge mine but no one makes a conversion and although BenR will do it you would be talking lots of cash as it would be a one off development job.
I have heard the Mark Fish conversion is BS apparently he is not really into engines and mainly does car prep cages susp setup etc.?
FredYozzasport said:
Ive got a ph-quick you can use for developmnent!
I'd need a 172 for starters.BenR said:
But nope I'd never buy one infact tunning of car doesn't realy bother me I'd do it DIY for fun but never buy anyhting and make life easy.
I was just trying to say people have claimed loads of companies are looking at them but no one has just rumours people think they have heard.
People t to belive supercharger/turbo charger good cheap kits will exist.
it was a rhetorical question.
My point is that the 172 is complex purely due to a lack of space and drive for the charger. I have a solution but i'm not about to air it for simple reason of copycatting.
The other reason why others havent indulged or attemped to develop past the drawing board is simple due to cost. Getting the charged engine running well is not a hard task...........selling it is.
For example, £6k is peanuts in the engineering world and asking for a turnkey solution to forced induction on the clio for that price is, well hard to achieve. Then how many will buy it?.......not many, look how many turbo kits are running around.
Then there is the problem of reliability......the engine will be fine, and so will the box....IF driven properly. Torque hits from a charger are high as boost doesnt not build up if you snap throttle....its just there. And as we all know, road users are now essentially traffic light grand prix racers and 1/4 milers.........which we know the clio box doesnt stand up well to.
Couple that with the fact that people HATE paying for gearbox's and its not looking good. People expect to get a rebuilt and uprated gearbox for £450 or so. But in reality a properly uprated and rebuilt gearbox has more measuring and tolerancing that building an engine, and people cringe at the thought of a gearbox upgrade that costs £1200.........when they dont see it doing or 'gaining' anything at all.....they could spend that on more power!......and so the vicious cycle begins.
My point is that the 172 is complex purely due to a lack of space and drive for the charger. I have a solution but i'm not about to air it for simple reason of copycatting.
The other reason why others havent indulged or attemped to develop past the drawing board is simple due to cost. Getting the charged engine running well is not a hard task...........selling it is.
For example, £6k is peanuts in the engineering world and asking for a turnkey solution to forced induction on the clio for that price is, well hard to achieve. Then how many will buy it?.......not many, look how many turbo kits are running around.
Then there is the problem of reliability......the engine will be fine, and so will the box....IF driven properly. Torque hits from a charger are high as boost doesnt not build up if you snap throttle....its just there. And as we all know, road users are now essentially traffic light grand prix racers and 1/4 milers.........which we know the clio box doesnt stand up well to.
Couple that with the fact that people HATE paying for gearbox's and its not looking good. People expect to get a rebuilt and uprated gearbox for £450 or so. But in reality a properly uprated and rebuilt gearbox has more measuring and tolerancing that building an engine, and people cringe at the thought of a gearbox upgrade that costs £1200.........when they dont see it doing or 'gaining' anything at all.....they could spend that on more power!......and so the vicious cycle begins.
Would an answer to the space issue be either to go to a CUp type desing remove the air con/put the alternator where the PS pump is anrun an electric rack? Or alternativly new radiator further forwards or a whle new one / use the space where the battery etc is?BenR said:
£1.2k as you say isn't what people want to spend on a gearbox but even thats small change I'm not sure what you'd get for the money but that 400hp fiesta has had more spent on the gearbox.
Can you not use the VAG gearbox its definatly stronger and hopefully cheaper with adpater plates made up and new driveshafts or echeaper still use 172 outers and VAG driveshafts fit over them?
Would you ever look into building a super/turbo kit for a sort of propdction or would all work be more of a one off?
Also off topic I know but have/would the cams you've got work on 197 and is the manifold any noticable amount better?
Moving to the cup aux setup, new steering rack, rads etc etc is only bumping the cost up and up by silly amounts. Your looking at about £2k there is custom solutions.
And fitting another gearbox could be fine and dandy, but for the 5 units that might on the off chance get sold, what the point in trying? Anybody who's serious races, and racing cars already have solid gearbox's available. Road users need to have lots of money and want to spent it just to have some crazy car, at no point does value for money even enter the check list.
And i would build a turbo 'kit' as in i'd design and have the designs, but each and every time the components would be made to order and no stock held. There would be so little orders that it would be pointless to do otherwise. A solution that i would be happy with would be in the region of 10k as i hate doing things on the cheap or hanving any components ill fitting, designed or manufactured.
And the 197 i've not even bothered to look at yet, i will in time, but they are band new and nobody is going to delve right into them with work such as that. I would need to analyse the OE systems and see what is done where and why. Because of the variable vvt, a new camshaft profile and lots of time spent on the vvt advance maps would be needed.
Just think about how much money and time is required to do the solutions you thought of....its not fast nor easy, and i dont just sit round all day trying to think up answers then try them. I need to make money to fund other developments and ideas i have kicking around. Then you have to put a profit margin on everything you do and make money, otherwise its totally pointless.
And fitting another gearbox could be fine and dandy, but for the 5 units that might on the off chance get sold, what the point in trying? Anybody who's serious races, and racing cars already have solid gearbox's available. Road users need to have lots of money and want to spent it just to have some crazy car, at no point does value for money even enter the check list.
And i would build a turbo 'kit' as in i'd design and have the designs, but each and every time the components would be made to order and no stock held. There would be so little orders that it would be pointless to do otherwise. A solution that i would be happy with would be in the region of 10k as i hate doing things on the cheap or hanving any components ill fitting, designed or manufactured.
And the 197 i've not even bothered to look at yet, i will in time, but they are band new and nobody is going to delve right into them with work such as that. I would need to analyse the OE systems and see what is done where and why. Because of the variable vvt, a new camshaft profile and lots of time spent on the vvt advance maps would be needed.
Just think about how much money and time is required to do the solutions you thought of....its not fast nor easy, and i dont just sit round all day trying to think up answers then try them. I need to make money to fund other developments and ideas i have kicking around. Then you have to put a profit margin on everything you do and make money, otherwise its totally pointless.
