Supercharged or turbo??

[ross261983]

what would u prefer if you had the money a super charger 1*2 or turbo up one?? for power and reability?

thinkin of savin up for one for my car but not sure which to get??

 

[Andyman]

All depends on what you want to do with the car

 

[mr bognor]

Would just buy a turbo or super charge car. not worth the money in the mods .

 

[the_prophet]

im of the same opinion as above, as good as it would be i just couldnt justifiy spending that much on a clio. i'd be (and am) tempted by itb's though......

 

[DMS]

Here we go again. I bet this turns into the same argument as usual.

 

[mr bognor]

If i did go for one it would be the turbo . Free gains in power as super charger robs power .

 

[Marv-C]

Just to be different, I would supercharge it. The engine develops all its power at the top of the rev range so you want something to help at the bottom. Supercharger = instant power.

Have been in a JRSC charged CTR and it the power was all useable. No point having huge power and then wheel spinning it all away.

 

[DMS]

If i did go for one it would be the turbo . Free gains in power as super charger robs power .

So do turbo's.
Superchargers and turbo's are both "parasitic". That is, they sit on the engine and sap some power to make more power.
I'd say the S/C kit is better for day to day driving because the power is more usable and more predictable.
The turbo setups you get a little bit of turbo lag (not much though) which means you really need to be in the right gear at the right time for an instant response. I find when I'm driving around in 4th/5th, it'll feel quite like a turbo diesel to drive - drop your foot to the floor, nothing for a second or two, then the turbo spools up and you're off! The turbo's power delivery is very different - it all comes in one enormous lump between 3000 and 6000rpm (which NEVER gets boring!). 3000rpm to 6000rpm happens in about 1½ seconds!

 

[Reyes]

Buy a turbo'd car?
Not worth the unreliability unless you have bottomless pockets.

 

[john182rs]

Every kit as its up and downs.
From what i see people putting on here the Turbo charger could put extensive pressure on the engine making it weaker, bearings failing and gaskets blowing plus too much power too soon and things go bang.
Supercharger is alot of pennies but you can not have aircon with it plus a few other things.
Itb's you'll need ear defenders after awhile.

Yes a supercharger you get the most amount of power from stock and turbos you can build the power up to above that and people will say you get the least amount of power from ITB's but i would not say 240bhp is low with some of the mods to get it.

And as everyone will say you can always be a bender and buy a m3.

At the end of the day it is what YOU want that matters, if you want to put pink poka dots on your car then go for it.

 

[DMS]

Every kit as its up and downs.
From what i see people putting on here the Turbo charger could put extensive pressure on the engine making it weaker, bearings failing and gaskets blowing plus too much power too soon and things go bang.
Supercharger is alot of pennies but you can not have aircon with it plus a few other things.
Itb's you'll need ear defenders after awhile.

Yes a supercharger you get the most amount of power from stock and turbos you can build the power up to above that and people will say you get the least amount of power from ITB's but i would not say 240bhp is low with some of the mods to get it.

And as everyone will say you can always be a bender and buy a m3.

At the end of the day it is what YOU want that matters, if you want to put pink poka dots on your car then go for it.

That's why if you go for a turbo'd setup you have a few choices.
You can go for the low boost kit which will have a slightly smaller turbo and run 0.5 bar boost. Any more would over-stress the engine.
If you want to run more boost then you need to spend the money on uprating the clutch, the engine internals and going low comp (and other bits and bobs, obviously). If my car's anything to go by I'd say it's worth it. Mine's got the fully forged bottom end etc and even though it's not running full boost yet it still feels very quick. Should have some big cojones once cranked up.

 

[john182rs]

Yea turbos are nice for power gains, but it is alot more pennies to get 250/260 than chucking a SC unit in.
There is alot of pros and cons with each kit, best way is to say what you want the car for or planning on doing and if you want to keep any certain features about the car.
Thats why ITB's would be best for me if i went for them, turbo's cost too much and a supercharger you have to loose the aircon. (i really want to keep said aircon)

 

[Brett]

I'd have the SC everytime. Plenty of power and still remains the origional characteristics of the engine.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Would just buy a turbo or super charge car. not worth the money in the mods .

Which if you actually read what the op has posted is NOT what he is asking.

It's an either or question, not what would you do instead...

Personally I would drive both and see which fits the bill. I've never been a fan of turbo's and hate the whiney chargers on the Mini's, but a Rotrex sounds particularly nice and is fine with standard clutch, box and engine and does not have any reliability issues (well, mine certainly doesn't). I know this first hand, anyone saying otherwise is quite simply wrong. My car has had pretty much every modification available at some stage and is living proof that if things are done properly to a high standard then there wont be any issues. The people spouting otherwise are the ones who have never had the balls or incling to do anything out the ordinary themselves, or took it to some cowboy outfit and got hosed.
My car has always been looked after and had all it's work done by Andy @ GDI (now K-tec) and proves my point quite nicely... quick run down:

36k - cams and SMT6
year later - ITB's
few years more - bigger ITB's!
present - charged and on 110k with no issues, it's the most reliable car I have ever owned.

 

[hughesclio]

Which if you actually read what the op has posted is NOT what he is asking.

It's an either or question, not what would you do instead...

Personally I would drive both and see which fits the bill. I've never been a fan of turbo's and hate the whiney chargers on the Mini's, but a Rotrex sounds particularly nice and is fine with standard clutch, box and engine and does not have any reliability issues (well, mine certainly doesn't). I know this first hand, anyone saying otherwise is quite simply wrong. My car has had pretty much every modification available at some stage and is living proof that if things are done properly to a high standard then there wont be any issues. The people spouting otherwise are the ones who have never had the balls or incling to do anything out the ordinary themselves, or took it to some cowboy outfit and got hosed.
My car has always been looked after and had all it's work done by Andy @ GDI (now K-tec) and proves my point quite nicely... quick run down:

36k - cams and SMT6
year later - ITB's
few years more - bigger ITB's!
present - charged and on 110k with no issues, it's the most reliable car I have ever owned.

c
couldnt of said it any better myself

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

If i did go for one it would be the turbo . Free gains in power as super charger robs power .

And again... WRONG. I would love to know where you get all of your information from, or do you just make it up as you go along? lol

This is a bad question to ask on CS, mainly because there's a lot of arm chair tuners who sadly have to comment on subjects they literally know nothing about. I'll probably get a load of bandwagoneers flaming me, but it's only fair you get some accurate information.

 

[DMS]

Yea turbos are nice for power gains, but it is alot more pennies to get 250/260 than chucking a SC unit in.
There is alot of pros and cons with each kit, best way is to say what you want the car for or planning on doing and if you want to keep any certain features about the car.
Thats why ITB's would be best for me if i went for them, turbo's cost too much and a supercharger you have to loose the aircon. (i really want to keep said aircon)

Mine will make a fair bit more than 260bhp tho'

TBH I can't wait to see an S/C'd 1*2 with fully forged internals. If it can make the 350ish bhp that Andy said it could that'll be epic.

 

[Tom@JMS]

SC - fits the engines standard character to a tee

 

[john182rs]

SC - fits the engines standard character to a tee

If you dont want the aircon, i was going to get it done but i want to keep the aircon. The cost wasnt really a problem i would just have to wait alittle longer for it.
I dont like turbo's either just some thing about them that bugs the sh*t out of me.
Think ill end up with ITB's one day then spend more attention to suspension, brakes and other mods with it.

 

[DMS]

LOL @ "one day".

 

[Chris n nic]

And the 240bhp you mentioned on TB's would cost a fair bit iirc

Chris

 

[john182rs]

LOL @ "one day".

Yea cheers Darren, think everyone knows it might not happen this year, just stick the knife in a twist it a little more why not.

 

[Bazzon]

And the 240bhp you mentioned on TB's would cost a fair bit iirc

Chris

It does trust me but it will be worth it (or so we hope)

Personally ITBs, but thats for track. If i had the cash/wanted to do a big mod to my road car. and had to choose between charger/turbo. Id probs go the supercharger route.

 

[john182rs]

And the 240bhp you mentioned on TB's would cost a fair bit iirc

Chris

But how much would that be compared to the other kits?

 

[Chris n nic]

I thought they were both around 4K? Turbo being more iirc

 

[john182rs]

ok so after the usual ITB kit what would one have to buy to get the 240 bhp?

 

[robotsonic]

at a guess i'd say ported head + 3 angle valve seats, lairy cams & forged pistons + rods

 

[Bazzon]

ok so after the usual ITB kit what would one have to buy to get the 240 bhp?

From Laxys Thread

Full engine rebuild
Jenvey 48s parallels
Jenvey ported manifold
Jenvey 120mm trumpets
Jenvey FRP air box base plate
Jenvey alloy fuel rail
PiperX 600 100mm filter
Peco 43 injectors
Weber fuel pressure regulator
CAT CAM 422's (vanos cam)
CAT CAM PAC springs
Fully Ported Head
Full head rebuild with new steam seals, guides, inlet valves
Wossner 12:8 High compression pistons
Total Seal ring sets (gapped by headshop)
Lightened and balanced crank
Lightened Flywheel and balanced clutch cover
Weight matched rods
ARP 2000 studs (big end)
ACL race big end bearings
Glyco mains bearings
Glyco thrust bearings
New bottom end gasket kit (inc crank seals etc)
New crank pulley bolt
New water pump
New MLS Head gasket
New Head bolts
New thermostat
New oil pump
Full strip down and clean up
Block decked and head skimmed to bring clearance up
Block honed
Renault Cam belt kit with pulleys
Renault Aux belt kit
Cup AUX brackets
Cup alternator

That was Bens old 230/40BHP engine.

Our new one is slightly similar with a few changes, the engine is worth alot of moeny. and slightly more expensive than a supercharger conversion.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

you would need to add the costs of a fully forged bottom end and headwork to hit a genuine 240bhp, Andy did a few of these engines that I had the pleasure of driving and they are something else!

 

[robotsonic]

What rpms will that engine go to?

wrt the op's question money no object i would have turbo + electronic boost control
if you compare the sc kit and turbo kit dyno graphs the sc only makes a significant
diference over 6k revs

 

[john182rs]

From Laxys Thread
and slightly more expensive than a supercharger conversion.

Yea but not so much in one go conversion sort of thing, pay 2-3k now and have the rest done later on or another year.

 

[Bazzon]

Not sure on that one, but ours will be about 8K, but we will be running 423's so we are unsure when they will peak. So its a bit of a gamble. (hopefully will pay off)

 

[Bazzon]

Yea but not so much in one go conversion sort of thing, pay 2-3k now and have the rest done later on or another year.

That what we are doing.

Bought a second had ITB kit last year with OMEX, for 1.8K

and started the High comp conversion this winter and the engine is now worth more that the Supercharger conversion. High comp done properly isnt cheap.

 

[john182rs]

Not sure on that one, but ours will be about 8K, but we will be running 423's so we are unsure when they will peak. So its a bit of a gamble. (hopefully will pay off)

£8,000 for the total amount including TB's s**t me.
I just want them for the sound aswell, neighbours complain about the level of noise at the moment with just a milltek.

 

[Martin_172]

id just keep the standard n/a setup and learn to drive it properly

 

[Andyman]

Yea but not so much in one go conversion sort of thing, pay 2-3k now and have the rest done later on or another year.

True but the final result will be just about the same cash outlay, maybe more, less BHP and capped potential.

Supercharger 4k running safe levels, uprate bottom end etc potential for 400BHP apparently

 

[Bazzon]

£8,000 for the total amount including TB's s**t me.
I just want them for the sound aswell, neighbours complain about the level of noise at the moment with just a milltek.

I was referring to the Above about the rev limit with the 8K

The engine is about 5K maybe a tad more currently.

Our neighbours already complained about ours when it was running standard internals.
But once the new engine is in we will be getting a new exhaust to help lower the noise. Because our car is already on the limit for some trackdays.

 

[robotsonic]

sweet if your keeping it n/a the only way is up the revs

 

[john182rs]

I want to have a TB meet on my road at 7am one morning to say Hello to all that lives there.
They dont moan when the 1100 zzr meeting comes on the block or the horse when it s***s every where but oh no my car is above the sound defening levels.

 

[T.Trophy]

These threads seem to be quite a regular thing now and it always amazes me how many people have opinions on this matter who've never actually seen a forced induction clio let alone driven one.

As is stated in every other thread like this, anyone who parts with 4K on the advice of people on a forum is a mug.

It really is so simple,if you have the money for this type of modification then you must be able to afford to go to ktec and RStuning and sample whats on offer. Then make your own mind up, don't be a sheep and listen to what people on here have to say as frankly some of it's ridiculous.

Superchargers are the in thing at the minute and everyone is talking about 400bhp setups. As it stands RStuning is the only one to exceed 300bhp. Both ktec and RStuning are working on low compression high boost kits so we'll see how it goes and what figures they come up with.

On the turbo front there is a F4R in a 5 GT turbo running mid to high 400's however there are no clios 1*2's running any where near that. In fact I've yet to see any of the recent conversions get more than 280 bhp.