The 197 - Simply the Better Car

[Dave]

Its more modern, more refined, better driving position, and safer.

Its just technology moving on I'm afraid. As gutting as it is for 172/182 owners, the game has moved on.

I've driven one and loved it. I'm just going to await the depreciation and I'll probably have a year old one or something in a bit if I decide to stick with the Renaults.

May not be faster straight line, but straight line is boring anyway.

Thumbs up from me!

 

[Rich]

Its more modern, more refined, better driving position, and safer.

If thats what your looking for from a car then happy days. (Fully agree on the driving postion bit though).

For me it was boring and no fun, would happily own one as a daily hack alongside my 182 though.

 

[seb]

i tihkn you missed out the main factor in the 197.

H A N D L I N G

I can't beleive to say it but it is better in this dpartment than my old 182. I also find it more fun due to it's better character. the 182 was and is quite immature imo but the 197 irons out these problems and is all the better car (over the 182) for it.

 

[ja.jack]

No Dave, it's you that's boring.

 

[Dave]

But Rich, if you went from a 205 to a 182....wouldnt you say the same thing?

I mean look at all time great hot hatches....

205 GTI
306 GTI-6
Williams
172/182

People will argue LOADS about what should be in that category but I know you have driven the Pugs...if you went straight from 205 to 182 would you say a similar thing?

Or perhaps from an old Civic (EK9 is it? I dunno) into a nowaday CTR?

 

[Donz144]

I drove one...TOO refined, TOO big for what its trying to be, TOO heavy with not enough of a power hike and TOO like every other hatch on the market (I cant tell the difference between all the families now, PUG, REN, Vax, FORD etc..)

However, I did love the feel from the wheel. Very positive and lots of feedback. I too would take one along side my 172!!

 

[Dave]

No Dave, it's you that's boring.

I'm sorry. Who are you exactly?

 

[seb]

No Dave, it's you that's boring.

avoid perosnal insults please.

 

[edde]

Glad someoen sees the point and started a positive thread for the 197.

Things chnage its not the same doesn't make it any better or worst just a change. If you prefere it then go for it.

 

[D_0_4_7]

lol....I have to agree the 197 is ok but not great....It makes you think what RS are trying acheive when they bring out revised models.

Williams - s**t hot
172 Mk1 - Good Motor
172 MK2 - Good but slower than the previous
182 - Yet again not as good as previous
197 - Way off.

I know that technogoies move on but is that a reason to change what really didt need changing.

Personally I would have MK2 172 any day, based on gadgets and fun.

The one at the leicster meet, was nice....give it 6 months people wont give it a second look

I miss my 172...sob sob

 

[Dave]

Glad someoen sees the point and started a positive thread for the 197.

Things chnage its not the same doesn't make it any better or worst just a change. If you prefere it then go for it.

I feel my interior is a bit sparse as well now I've been in the 197...even with my recaros!

 

[edde]

Glad someoen sees the point and started a positive thread for the 197.

Things chnage its not the same doesn't make it any better or worst just a change. If you prefere it then go for it.

I feel my interior is a bit sparse as well now I've been in the 197...even with my recaros!

The new recaros are much better IMO as I fit in them. I wouldn't have a 197 unless it had them in it.

 

[Dave]

lol....I have to agree the 197 is ok but not great....It makes you think what RS are trying acheive when they bring out revised models.

Williams - s**t hot
172 Mk1 - Good Motor
172 MK2 - Good but slower than the previous
182 - Yet again not as good as previous
197 - Way off.

I know that technogoies move on but is that a reason to change what really didt need changing.

Personally I would have MK2 172 any day, based on gadgets and fun.

I miss my 172...sob sob

You are kidding me right? The 182 is all over the equivalent 172. I'll discount the Cup here as we really, really, do not want to go there!

 

[Dave]

I feel my interior is a bit sparse as well now I've been in the 197...even with my recaros!

The new recaros are much better IMO as I fit in them. I wouldn't have a 197 unless it had them in it.

Are they supplying recaros in the 197 now or is it still std seats? I've not even seen the optional recaros in the 197 yet!

 

[TomTom]

We compare it to the 182 (me included) but to me its in a totally different category, I'd call it a hot 'family' hatch or something similar.

Just don't see why they settled for 197 when they know they can get 260+

D047 Think you've got that backwards mate, are you saying a 172s faster than a 182? 182s are all over willys/172s, yeah back in the day they where good, as said felt flipping quick because its smaller.

The car definetly got better, but they never really paid attention to the engine/box

 

[D_0_4_7]

Its only my opinion, dont think the 182 was as good as the MK2 172...could't really see the point in the extra 10bhp?...I dont want to go down the road of whats faster...coz it wont acheive anything....everyone knows and has heard of a 172 even my mum...lol.

lol....I have to agree the 197 is ok but not great....It makes you think what RS are trying acheive when they bring out revised models.

Williams - s**t hot
172 Mk1 - Good Motor
172 MK2 - Good but slower than the previous
182 - Yet again not as good as previous
197 - Way off.

I know that technogoies move on but is that a reason to change what really didt need changing.

Personally I would have MK2 172 any day, based on gadgets and fun.

I miss my 172...sob sob

You are kidding me right? The 182 is all over the equivalent 172. I'll discount the Cup here as we really, really, do not want to go there!

 

[Rich]

But Rich, if you went from a 205 to a 182....wouldnt you say the same thing?

I did!

I sold my 205 GTi and 306 XSi and replaced them with a 182, because it was the closest I could get in a modern day car the GTi.

 

[edde]

You are kidding me right? The 182 is all over the equivalent 172. I'll discount the Cup here as we really, really, do not want to go there!

I agree personally with D_0_4_7 for me the Wiliams is my favourite of the range the phase 1 172 being the next best one.

However if I had to own one of them and do the miles I do and let family of wife or kiddies go round I'd have the 197 forget my driving excitment there more to the world. Plus the 197 isn't no slouch.

I'd rate the 197 higher than the full fat 172 and 182 though.

Fred and BenR both agree the 172 phase 1 is the best drivers one they made (in the 182/172 series)

 

[edde]

Are they supplying recaros in the 197 now or is it still std seats? I've not even seen the optional recaros in the 197 yet!

Yep there orderable apparently never looked into it the system has them there though. Not cheap though £700 or so extra.

Its only my opinion, dont think the 182 was as good as the MK2 172...could't really see the point in the extra 10bhp?

The 182 was more than 10hp they chnaged the suspension setups quite a bit realy.

 

[Dave]

Its only my opinion, dont think the 182 was as good as the MK2 172...could't really see the point in the extra 10bhp?...I dont want to go down the road of whats faster...coz it wont acheive anything....everyone knows and has heard of a 172 even my mum...lol.

But lets be honest I'm not going to base my decision on the whole 182 Vs 172 debate simply because your mum has heard of a 172 am I?

The 182 although having a claimed 10hp more, is not what the change was about. It was more about suspension and handling, and a LOAD more about marketing. It brought the RS Clios back to the forefront with the Gordini throwbacks etc.

 

[D_0_4_7]

I wasnt impressed with the 182 when it first can out (ex cup & Throphy models) I thought the suspension was a bit poop, and at 5k a bit wet...lol

I was looking at replacing my old 172 with one when they first came out...but decided that the ellbachs would be a better investment.

as for bringing RS clios back to the forefront I didt really think that they needed saving, why keep changing something that wasnt broken why not let the car speak for itself...like the williams

 

[Rich]

as for bringing RS clios back to the forefront I didt really think that they needed saving, why keep changing something that wasnt broken why not let the car speak for itself...like the williams

With Renault it is more a case of maintaining that there current hot hatch was top of the game, building on with the 172 where the Williams left off. Ensuring the likes of Peugeot didnt turn the tables back to when there GTis ruled the roost.

 

[D_0_4_7]

good point Rich...it will be interesting to see what happens wiv the 197.

as for bringing RS clios back to the forefront I didt really think that they needed saving, why keep changing something that wasnt broken why not let the car speak for itself...like the williams

With Renault it is more a case of maintaining that there current hot hatch was top of the game, building on with the 172 where the Williams left off. Ensuring the likes of Peugeot didnt turn the tables back to when there GTis ruled the roost.

 

[edde]

I wasnt impressed with the 182 when it first can out (ex cup & Throphy models) I thought the suspension was a bit poop, and at 5k a bit wet...lol

I was looking at replacing my old 172 with one when they first came out...but decided that the ellbachs would be a better investment.

as for bringing RS clios back to the forefront I didt really think that they needed saving, why keep changing something that wasnt broken why not let the car speak for itself...like the williams

I think the trophy suspension worst than the normal one.

Renault and all cpmpnaies have to chanage the market won't accept the same cars years after years you have to move on and accept chnages.

 

[ChrisR]

I liked the 197, I'm sure whilst it's not straight line quicker than a 1*2 it'll still be a match for it on track. Plus I think the power delivery makes it feel slower than it is, I'd have one (when they are cheaper that is ).

 

[RobHardyUK]

But Rich, if you went from a 205 to a 182....wouldnt you say the same thing?

I did!

I sold my 205 GTi and 306 XSi and replaced them with a 182, because it was the closest I could get in a modern day car the GTi.

and the 197 is the modern day replacement of the 182. And far better with it (Ive owned all)

 

[ja.jack]

Do'nt think the Williams was all that ''s**t hot''.Compared to its predecessor the 5gtt, I found it down right unexciting after the thrills of my souped 5.

 

[Ad]

lol....I have to agree the 197 is ok but not great....It makes you think what RS are trying acheive when they bring out revised models.

Williams - s**t hot
172 Mk1 - Good Motor
172 MK2 - Good but slower than the previous
182 - Yet again not as good as previous
197 - Way off.

I know that technogoies move on but is that a reason to change what really didt need changing.

Personally I would have MK2 172 any day, based on gadgets and fun.

The one at the leicster meet, was nice....give it 6 months people wont give it a second look

I miss my 172...sob sob

cant agree with the above statements as other people have said.

 

[Ad]

I wasnt impressed with the 182 when it first can out (ex cup & Throphy models) I thought the suspension was a bit poop, and at 5k a bit wet...lol

I was looking at replacing my old 172 with one when they first came out...but decided that the ellbachs would be a better investment.

as for bringing RS clios back to the forefront I didt really think that they needed saving, why keep changing something that wasnt broken why not let the car speak for itself...like the williams

having had a MK2 172 and a 182 cant agree with that either.....

also the williams is a great car.. but as edde says things move on, but they still deserve respect...

 

[edde]

also the williams is a great car.. but as edde says things move on, but they still deserve respect...

The 172/182/197 aren't as fun driving cars as the Williams IMO the 197 etc all have other advantages.

 

[Rich]

I did!

I sold my 205 GTi and 306 XSi and replaced them with a 182, because it was the closest I could get in a modern day car the GTi.

and the 197 is the modern day replacement of the 182. And far better with it (Ive owned all)

My point was chassis wise the 182 drives and feels very akin to the 205 GTi, a little loose right on the edge, the tail moving about under heavy braking, and enough excitement to make your palms sweat a bit that get it round on the limit and it will bite you in the arse just like an old Pug GTi will. Fun and excitement. That old school element of danger and slightly raw edge is the reason I bought the 182. Had an old school charm about it.

Yes the 197 is the 182's replacement, it has a great chassis, loads of grips, handles well and is alot more composed than the 182, so evolution and replacement yes, but has lost the fun and slight rawness and edgyness that hasd been present in Reanult hot hatches from the R5, through to the Williams, 172 and so on and so forth.

Like Seb it HEREis clear the 197 is the better car for you, if you crave a true modern day Wiliams or Pug GTi replacement it wont be for you. For me the 197 would be a fanatsic daily tool, if I got to keep my 182 aswell.

 

[richlawson]

197s look rough i think they have lost the looks of the clio but agree its a lot safer

on here ur always going to get dif veiws on them everyone round my way hates them so do i, but it will def grow on people just think renault could of given it more grin factor

 

[Batman]

if it looked better and it was faster it'd be a great car, they've thrown away the good looks and speed and given us a focus i'm keeping the 172

 

[Munson]

TBH I've been reading threads on the RS forum about rattling doors and creaking suspensions. Grown up? Has anyone here had any such issues with theirs? The 197 is still on my shopping list, but it's getting lower down on the list recently than it has been.

"Gutting" isn't a word I would have personally used, either. I'm happy that it's a better all round car, and I'd buy one tomorrow if it were not for my own personal reasons, which I won't go into again. However, there does seem a lot of assumption that it's somehow built by angels simpluy because it has a more modern interior, yet in reality no one really knows what kind of faults will become common place. So far it seems to be suffering almost as many issues as any 182...

 

[TJ182]

I went from 3 yrs with a 172 and then bought the 182 in 2005. Not a great difference in the two but I would never ever go for the 197. Some aspects about the styling I like (front, side sills etc), the rest I don't.

The interior is bloody awful, what were they thinking with the dash?

Then theres the driving, and its just not my cup of tea. I only drove it briefly as you do with a test drive and having owned its predecessors Im confident when I say its not a better all round package.

But hey, just my opinion eh!

:star:

 

[Munson]

^^But you're not allowed to have that opinion without being accused of being some jealous school boy who cant afford 3 197s

 

[richlawson]

if it looked better and it was faster it'd be a great car, they've thrown away the good looks and speed and given us a focus i'm keeping the 172

agree

 

[Munson]

i tihkn you missed out the main factor in the 197.

H A N D L I N G

You're right there Seb, although the slightly rubbish steering blurs the line between grip and handling for me. The one I drove had more grip and a sharper turn-in than my 182, but the steering leaves it falling short of better "handling" even if the car is quicker point to point.

 

[Rich]

I didnt notice the turn in being any sharper, but as said maybe the over light steering masked this for me. I am not convinced on point to point the 197 being quicker bit, easier to drive cross country quickly maybe.

 

[DNP182]

If you want to talk about grown up and the 'better car'...forget about the 197 and go for the f230...for what...£2-3k more. I know what i would do!