The 197 - Simply the Better Car

[Jayb 172]

This arguement is going to go on for ever but why do people have to go down the road of saying how the 197 is no good. Everybody wants different things from a car and its pointless comparing a 1995 williams or a 2000 renault sport to a brand new car where new technology is available. It is going to be very hard to find a brand new car these days that has the buzz of the 205, williams,172 so in my view its a bit pointless comparing.

 

[jiminy]

sorry if this has been said but, even if it is better than a 172 which i doubt, its a lot worse than the competition

 

[mike_1506]

i wona test drive one then i can comment from what ive heard there not that special.

 

[Dave]

sorry if this has been said but, even if it is better than a 172 which i doubt, its a lot worse than the competition

Whats the competition then? And the price?

 

[ColinG]

just buy a V6

 

[jiminy]

mini
golf
civic
vauxhaul and ford if you must

this is just going of the specs and reviews because i havnt driven the models in question

Why pay threw the teeth and buy a french car trying to be german or japanese, Ie well made.

the reason the 172/182 are special is because they dont have any realistic competition

the new mini and civic type r will keep there money better, are better looking, better made and have better mechanicals,
civic type r will probably not depreciate for the first year

if you want a grown up car but still want a hot hatch you cant go wrong with the new golf

focus rs could be entertaining

i dont know your budget but if you include depreciation the 197 will probably be expensive

my cup cost about 6k less than the competition so it can be forgiven for being french the 197 isnt that much cheaper than the others mentioned.

 

[seb]

sorry if this has been said but, even if it is better than a 172 which i doubt, its a lot worse than the competition

197 - £15995
golf gti - £20360
ST 3dr - 1 - £17795
- 2 - £18795
- 3 - £19795
VXR - £19120
cooper s - £15995 (iirc for the new model)

So i struggle to see how the 197 can be compared to any of them apart form the mini. These are all basic prices.

I got my 197 for low 14K so i reckon you could get maybe £500 quid off a golf for example form a dealer. Nothing on the cooper. maybe £1500 off an ST but i am only guessing.

I ain't interested in import prices or onlnie dealers as then you can get a 197 for low 13k iirc. So it makes it far cheaper than any of the others onlnie by some margin.

I am only intrested in dealer prices.

So how you can compare the 197 to the golf is beyond me tbh.

Like i said in another thread peopel buy different cars for different reasons.

I take your points about other cars not depreciating but then you have to pay close to full whakc form a dealer. For example the cooper s doesn't come with air con. that costs about £500 quid. Let alone the TLC package which a must tbh.

The clio 197 is a cheap fast car, you just need to haggle.

 

[seb]

i wona test drive one then i can comment from what ive heard there not that special.

i quite like the fact peole don't like the 197 with out even driving one or make their mind up after 20 minutes.

Leaves me knowing i have the best kept secret in the hot hatch market! :approve:

bring on the negative comments!

i am already part of the revolution! and it is bloody marvelous!

 

[D_0_4_7]

the 197 had just come out when i replaced my old 172...chose a meggy 225 instead.......would deffo have a 172 again. but think about a williams maybe

 

[Gaz_]

i'm loving the 197 looks

need a test drive

 

[RSTuning]

Drove a 197 today. It had about 26 miles on the clock. It felt really well composed on the corners and boy did we go round some corners! Acceleration is also nice and smooth and i think the only reason it feels "slow" to a 1x2 driver is because it is a bigger more solid car. Yes it could do with loosing a little weight but boy does that car handle!

IMO the 197 is a fantastic car

Paul

 

[Gaz_]

i'd buy one, and cup it, ie rip all the crap out lol

 

[jiminy]

if you are pleased with your car seb, my argument is irrelavant and im pleased your enjoying it.

personally id rather buy a better car that is secondhand but if i had 15k id be driving around in a 35 year old car, everyone has there own opinion and i dont mind admitting im as odd as people who buy new cars.

 

[Evil Ally]

I'll tell you one thing for sure, whenever a new version/model of anything comes out people will always say the old one is better. It applies to anything, not just cars.

As for the 197, I wasn't very impressed when I took one for a test drive from a dealers. However, I've spent some time with it at brands and cadwell park and I must say it has grown on me a lot. I've also been in one driven properly by an instructor (one who could actually drive!) and it was amazing to see what the car is actually capable of. It is easily faster than a 1*2 round a track. The chassis offers an incredible amount of controlable lift-off over steer which will put a grin on your face every time. Try that in a 182 and you'll likely end up arse backwards in a hedge.

The big dissapointment for me is the engine. It has clearly been designed to slow the car down so it can slot in behind the megane in the product range and you can tell this everytime you drive it.

For the money right now, I would be more tempted by the Megane 230 which you can pick up for £14,800 online. However given that the 197 is new it's unfair to judge it at it's current price point.

 

[jiminy]

just had a look on autotrader 13500 for a new 197
15000 for a secondhand golf gti

the 197 will lose a lot more value in the next year

maybe i still do not understand the draw of french cars

 

[edde]

just had a look on autotrader 13500 for a new 197
15000 for a secondhand golf gti

the 197 will lose a lot more value in the next year

maybe i still do not understand the draw of french cars

£13.3k some place is advertising them form I posted the address a few hours agao there the cheapest i can find.

Yep the 197 will loose valve I'd recon they'll drop under £10k in under 6 months for second hand early ones.

 

[182_blue]

one thing i have to say is does it matter which you think is better ?, if you don't like the 197 don't buy it, if you do then buy one, these arguments have been going on forever on this place, live and let live i say and try to be complimentary about other peoples car choices and opinions, FFS life is far to short


ps, which would i have, well if i had to have a renault again and it had to be a clio then it would be the 197, but if i didn't have to choose a clio then it would be the r26 which would cost about the same if you went to an Internet discount place

 

[D_0_4_7]

the new r26 is around the same money you spend on a 197

 

[edde]

the new r26 is around the same money you spend on a 197

Its quite a few grand more based on both list and discount price.

 

[seb]

i think they will have similair residuals to the 182.

i also agree wit hother poitns made, if you liek the 197 you buy it, if you don't like it, you buy something else.

i can't resist but post in defence for the 197!

 

[Rich]

Think you need a special 197 Defender badge Seb.

 

[seb]

i'll defend the BEST hot hatch to the grave lol

 

[Loopz]

It is easily faster than a 1*2 round a track.

Hm, I am not so sure about that.

 

[ant_v6]

I thought the 197 was supposedly a bit to lardy? And that the one thing that made the 182 the car it is was lightness?

Personally I wouldn't buy either but I have to say, I'd especially not buy a 197 as it looks like a sh1tstabber's car. A teenage girl would look great in one but anyone else just a little bit suspect. See two men sitting in one of those and what is the first thing that will spring to mind?

 

[Graham Gooch]

Think you need a special 197 Defender barge Seb.

 

[ja.jack]

Get that finger out of your nose.

 

[TomTom]

the new r26 is around the same money you spend on a 197

Only £1800 for that special paint

See two men sitting in one of those and what is the first thing that will spring to mind?

One driving, one in the passenger seat?



Sorry

 

[ant_v6]

I was thinking; one postman, the other one letterbox!

 

[Rich]

Only £1800 for that special paint

Don't have the yellow then!

 

[TomTom]

Then it looks like your bog standard 225...

 

[Ross M]

has anyone taken one on track yet and posted a time in a 197 and a 172/182 and then compared. im pretty sure if everything was equal - i.e driver / conditions / track etc the 197 would be faster. it just doesnt feel faster as its better built.

 

[ant_v6]

Would be an interesting test. I think what people are sceptical about is the car becoming heavier? The one overiding thing that makes the 182 what it is is lightness... think back to the original Golf GTi and then what it was a few years ago – maybe not quite the same (and certainly nowhere near as extreme) but along those lines of thought.

 

[TomTom]

Its like the MK1's, Willys & valvers, felt fast (which they are) in a small/go-kart like car

Then the 172 similar engine size, better built car, feels less fast, and so on all the way upto the 197.

 

[Evil Ally]

It is easily faster than a 1*2 round a track.

Hm, I am not so sure about that.

Can I ask, have you driven both back to back at a track?

 

[ant_v6]

Has anyone? And if they have was it timed or just a kind of "this one felt faster" opinion?

 

[D_0_4_7]

Then it looks like your bog standard 225...

Oh dear

 

[TomTom]

I'd take a 225 over any sort of 197 thanks

 

[ukaskew]

Problem is that with these mainstream cars, we are never going to see 1000kg or thereabouts again, it just won't happen. Would Renault build the 172 Cup in 2007? Not a chance, their main marketing blurb is all based on safety more so than ever now, and safety means lots of weight.

 

[D_0_4_7]

Problem is that with these mainstream cars, we are never going to see 1000kg or thereabouts again, it just won't happen. Would Renault build the 172 Cup in 2007? Not a chance, their main marketing blurb is all based on safety more so than ever now, and safety means lots of weight.

gud point roy,

 

[TomTom]

Yeah well said, and the safer and better built it is, makes it feel more controlled/safe, hence feeling slower.