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Throttle bodied valver

F

Fatherted



went to K-tec today & got my exhaust sorted free of charge (again...many thanks k-tec for a 1st class service) its much better now....more refined.. & im sure my hearing will return to normal soon !! ....am thinking of swapping back to the smaller middle box tho....coz i can now hear the misus when shes naggin at me in the car !! :o

anyway..........whilst i was there i had a chance to look & take a few pics of their throttle body conversion !!! very nice.......as soon as its RR tested im sure people on here would like to know the results !!

they reckon it should be pushin out somewhere near 180-190bhp !!!

hello cup eating valver !!!

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1071509305__throttleValver0.jpg
 


I have been enquiring about this - think the kit costs about £1850 and comes with everything needed so you just need to sort somewhere to get it fitted!

Apparently itll be rollling roaded on the first week of january before theyll have an idea of power etc....

VERY interesting!
 


i think they were looking around the 3k mark all fitted.....dunno about a DIY kit give em a ring mate

i might buy a 172 next year.............coz they told me that they should have a turbo conversion ready with somewhere near 280-300 bhp @ 16 psi ....... yum yum !!
 


Quote: Originally posted by Fatherted on 15 December 2003


i might buy a 172 next year.............coz they told me that they should have a turbo conversion ready with somewhere near 280-300 bhp @ 16 psi ....... yum yum !!
Click to expand...
:o *boyying* :D
 


lol

looks like theyv used the standard rad..............not good

theres already a willy lump runni on throttle bodies in the manny area,bhp is yet to be measured tho.

btw anyone near derby?

stay fukkin well away from top boss performance, or fitz as he is known.......just a warning
 


Those mini filters opening towards the front of the engine mean that you will achieve some degree of ram effect. However, any benefit from this will be dissipated by the fact that you are sucking in air from directly above/behind the radiator. Admittedly, the heat kicked out by the radiator is not massive, but by having the filters so close to the block, you are bound to be sucking in warm/hot air. hot air is bad! it means that you will not achieve maximum expansion in the cylinder, thus losing power.

The only way i can think of to minimise this effect (and youre not going to like this) is by constructing some sort of plenum or air box over the filters, which allows only cold air through the grill to gain access, not warm air from the engine.

Further on the same cold air rant, does anyone know of a reasonably subtle looking bumper for the X-reg 172 that would allow me to incorporate a cold air intake? now seems like a good time as the current bumper recently suffered badger damage....
 


that kit seems to be jsut a plain webber alpha kit, which u can buy direct from them for about 1800quid i beleive. look in demon tweeks, they sell the kit.

ur not gunna get much power from it, max of 20bhp. this is due to the large ports of the "early" f type head. u need to nick hill special to get any decent power gaains from it - like the use of the megane head, smaller ports, better low end gas speed, etc.

jimbo
 


Quote: Originally posted by ian_6301 on 15 December 2003


Those mini filters opening towards the front of the engine mean that you will achieve some degree of ram effect. However, any benefit from this will be dissipated by the fact that you are sucking in air from directly above/behind the radiator. Admittedly, the heat kicked out by the radiator is not massive, but by having the filters so close to the block, you are bound to be sucking in warm/hot air. hot air is bad! it means that you will not achieve maximum expansion in the cylinder, thus losing power.

The only way i can think of to minimise this effect (and youre not going to like this) is by constructing some sort of plenum or air box over the filters, which allows only cold air through the grill to gain access, not warm air from the engine.

Further on the same cold air rant, does anyone know of a reasonably subtle looking bumper for the X-reg 172 that would allow me to incorporate a cold air intake? now seems like a good time as the current bumper recently suffered badger damage....
Click to expand...
Ram airs b****cks anyway mate. unless u r doing more than 150mph. will only give you about 3bhp at that speed. nothin at all.

cold air would be better yeah. but wont make that much difference. unless its a scortchin day.

think if i had em id get a bonnet and cut vents out of the front.
 


Quote: Originally posted by jimbo1 on 15 December 2003


that kit seems to be jsut a plain webber alpha kit, which u can buy direct from them for about 1800quid i beleive. look in demon tweeks, they sell the kit.

ur not gunna get much power from it, max of 20bhp. this is due to the large ports of the "early" f type head. u need to nick hill special to get any decent power gaains from it - like the use of the megane head, smaller ports, better low end gas speed, etc.

jimbo





y use kill power?

theres plenty other ppl that have the experience of workin with these cars n mods.

and from wot iv seen of them theres only 1 place id trust to do the work............and its not kill power, bb, 5 alive,prima or the other alledged reno experts..............its not top doss performance either.

and apparently the webber alpha system is a real pain in the arse setup too, which can also only be sorted by bona fide webber dealers, most r/r s weve been to arent because of the costs involved apparently

megane head is a dead cert for t/bs on the willy tho as the inlet tracts are too large on the willy head apparently

but wtf do i know?
Click to expand...
 


hill power have produced the only decent tb conversion in the country so far. there megane/willy hybrid makes 220bhp. they have also produced there own inlet manifold, to allow the fitment to the megane head, and this also allows more space behind the front slam panel. u can then use velocity stacks/air horns on the front of the throttle body, which is key in making decent torque. a custom radiator is also used, to allow unrestricted air to the throttle bodies, or fit a carbon airbox!:D

the webber alpha ecu can only be fiddled with by an alpha dealer. lumenition, mbe, all the other after market ecus allows setup via a laptop interface, changes can be made on the fly.

jimbo
 


not sure of the name of teh garage lol

but the guy builds/prepares/drives his own escy rally car when hes not messin around in the garage lol

im only goin on talkin to the guy,and he def knows wot hes on about, compared to some of the othe alledged reno specialists

bb tunin, "we dont ned to do any r&d on our turbos cos evrythings fine".............er rite ok, y do they keep breakin then?

kill power......gimme a grand il take 10 bhp off ur car, but itl look good on my little meter wen i take it up the road.theres only 1 car from this place that iv been surprised by an thats adis/matt browns old un

not had anything to do with prima but ..............lots of other ppl have had probs there also

5 alive iv heard are also not very good wen it comes to actually doing something properly

jimbo mate watch this space, i think kill powers t/bd clio is jus about gunna get blown into the weeds
 


Quote: Originally posted by Fatherted on 15 December 2003


i think they were looking around the 3k mark all fitted.....dunno about a DIY kit give em a ring mate

i might buy a 172 next year.............coz they told me that they should have a turbo conversion ready with somewhere near 280-300 bhp @ 16 psi ....... yum yum !!
Click to expand...
That would be unuseable.

Youd spin a good 50-80bhp of that away.There are limits to the usefulness of lots of power in a fwd car.
 


lol i would of thought 280-300 bhp in a 172 would mean major traction issues, i mean look at the r5 gtts that are running 300 bhp, not the most reliable cars, and they have massive probs with traction, i think that 220bhp is prob the most a fwd car should have.

i mean i prob running 140- maybee 150bhp and thats hard enuff to keep traction in with 17s in my mrk 1 clio....
 


erm guys, you dont have to floor it all the time....its not gonna spin up in 4th at 100mph.

too much power....silly comment.

Remember sunnys 550bhp fiesta....that doesnt spin all the way up to 180mph.
 


and bb performance tuning not any good. your having a laugh. thes ones that break is because they are developing the power claimed . first it was clutches then gearboxes . not engines turbos or other stuff .just power and plenty of it
 


Quote: Originally posted by MAXIBOY on 18 December 2003

and bb performance tuning not any good. your having a laugh. thes ones that break is because they are developing the power claimed . first it was clutches then gearboxes . not engines turbos or other stuff .just power and plenty of it
Click to expand...
errrrrrr r&d is something that is invaluable

y wud ppl want to buy a package thats gunna need loadsa wonga to keep runnin?buyin/replacin clutches/boxes all the time

thats where r&d come into it

which is summat thats not needed on bbt packages



apparently
 


Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 18 December 2003


erm guys, you dont have to floor it all the time....its not gonna spin up in 4th at 100mph.

too much power....silly comment.

Remember sunnys 550bhp fiesta....that doesnt spin all the way up to 180mph.
Click to expand...


Great, so youd be able to use that power once you get in to 4th or 5th. Seems pointless to me. I reckon youd be just as quick with 220bhp on tap, in the real world.

Christ, in these conditions even my 138lbft dci 80 is spinning the wheels in 3rd.;)
 


tell the BTCC 220bhp is all they need and they wont notice the diff....

With your reasoning you could say that 220bhp is all you need in a rwd car...i mean, its only got 2 powered wheels and touch the throttle round corners you might die or something right.....

seriously, 220 is not enough.........
 


No but physics dicates that RWD will push itself on to its haunches under load, thus increasing the available grip, therefore enabling more power to be put through the wheels before traction issues occur.

Pluss the BTCC guys have lots of downforce and slick tyres. They arent that quick BTW. The Audi RS6 pace car was catching them up off the line. (does have 4wd and probably a 200bhp advantage though)
 


sorry guys i thought bb performance tuning sold engine conversions. why buy the conversion then complain that the brakes dont now work as well as they used to. they have r+d because i,m using it but its horse and water syndrome. some people you just cant reach. i,m using there conversion with uprated clutch and box and so far no problems. and if 220 is enough for you fine but i like more and its possible to use it. sunnys fiesta was the quickest fwd car at the lastest shootout by a large margin. if all that horse power was just wasted above 220bhp they would all be about equall and they weren,t. want any more real world conditions than that.
 


Quote: Originally posted by mike8579 on 19 December 2003

Fair dos then. Still cant understand how youd keep traction with that kind of power but I believe you.
Click to expand...
i doubt he was running the same boost through the handling course as he was through the 1/4 sections.
 


Quote: Originally posted by mike8579 on 19 December 2003


No but physics dicates that RWD will push itself on to its haunches under load, thus increasing the available grip, therefore enabling more power to be put through the wheels before traction issues occur.

Pluss the BTCC guys have lots of downforce and slick tyres. They arent that quick BTW. The Audi RS6 pace car was catching them up off the line. (does have 4wd and probably a 200bhp advantage though)
Click to expand...
Right, now were bringing physics into it.....lovely, that 220 is enough statement is jsut rubbished by your own applause.

RWD does have the ability to transfer 100% of its weight onto the rear axle, squat and its beneficial.

So back to the point, 220 bhp will make the tyres sping, sure, but so will 90bhp with a decent clutch. Shock loading the tyres isnt the best way to go about using power. once your moving you need a serious amount of power to loosen the tyres without any shocks weather torque or rpm based, load shifts or lateral forces comming into play. So, Even if he had 500bhp from a 2ltr turbo your not going to just set the wheels spinning once your moving.

BTCC arent that fast no.......exactly, 300 odd bhp, fwd and (aerodynamics dont come into play when were talking about tracktion) they arent particuarly pant wettignly fast in a striaght line. One benefit of the RS6 would be AWD, large capacity, turbos and erm.....TORQUE.

SEriously, how can you contend that 220bhp is enough........we passed that era a long time ago!
 
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