Tie rods bottoming out adjusting toe

[Tj172]

Hi, newbie to the forum! Bought a 172 on christmas eve Im in a manic rush atm to get my 172 ready for a track day on sat at rockingham! Ive used the search function and i cant find anything on this. The company doing my alignment rang today and said they cant get any toe out (0.5) because my tie rod thread bottoms out on the track rod. Ive got camber bolts set at a couple of degrees negative if that makes a difference? Anyone come across this? Is a case of zipping a few mill off the tie rod? They can only manage -1.4 toe which surely wont be optimal. Any light on this is massively appreciated.

 

[NorthloopCup]

If you want more toe out then you'll have to cut a few mm off the track rods, but personally if you've got 1.4mm (assuming it's mm?) then you've got enough imo, as it equates to around 14 minutes in old money.

 

[barnesautos]

This boils my piss when geometry company's don't know what they are doing .
Imo if they were to centralise the rack position assuming it's off because they are complaining they can't get enough toe , tell them to move it across the rack from one side to the other . It's not difficult .

What @NorthloopCup has suggested is a valid point also maybe a cheaper option. The only thing is the garage won't like you telling them what to do to fix the issue . All of a sudden your armed with a fix . They don't generally like a smart arse I've found . Hope you sort it out .

 

[bashracing]

could it have the longer 182 cup tie rods fitted?

 

[Tj172]

From what they said its 1.4 deg of toe in at max and ideally i want +0.5 out. If you guys think that will be acceptable for the day then i will leave it as that. Always struggled to get my geometry set up properly on my cars. Its drives me insane! Thanks for the quick replys btw!

 

[bashracing]

1.4 degrees toe in will be terrible
As Northloopcup said 14 minutes of toe out is your target

 

[...]

There seems to either be some confusion in what they are telling you , or confusion in what you are understanding .
If you have struggled in the past getting Geo setup i am going to guess that your understanding is limited .
It may be a good idea to understand a few answers to some basic geo questions .
do you understand the basics of Camber ,caster and Toe and the effect they have on the dynamics of your car ?
Get an understanding of degrees and minutes also and try and work in those measurements rather than mm as its far more universally understandable .

Don't be afraid to ask on here and we can run through it all as you won't be the only one who has no idea why they ask for certain settings and what they will do to the car .

The other point is there is no magic setup for all drivers either ,as differing styles will change what you need.

That may have now given you more questions than answers , but i will say you DONT want -1.4 degs of toe in on a fwd car on the road , let alone the track .

 

[...]

and that 14 mins of toe out will be total ... which is 7 per side !! (or is it !! )

Things really need to be clearly stated , as misinterpretations can make huge differences.

 

[Djw John]

There are longer track rods as stated above. If you have them then yes, they'll need chopped down and a die set run up them. It sounds very similar to when I got sent the wrong ones, took a good few mm of each one.

 

[Tj172]

I understand camber, toe, caster etc and how they affect the car, and the amount of variables dependant of driving style oversteer/understeer/wet/dry. Sorry its a quater of a deg of toe in so am i right in thinking thats is 15 mins toe in? I want to aim to have a slightly oversteery car to suit my style but my dads more of the opposite and we're sharing the driving so im trying a compromise.

 

[Tj172]

They actually told me oringally it was 1.4deg! But i assume the person i was speaking too got confused. As its 0.25 deg

 

[...]

I understand camber, toe, caster etc and how they affect the car, and the amount of variables dependant of driving style oversteer/understeer/wet/dry. Sorry its a quater of a deg of toe in so am i right in thinking thats is 15 mins toe in? I want to aim to have a slightly oversteery car to suit my style but my dads more of the opposite and we're sharing the driving so im trying a compromise.

And right there is where what you have said leads me to think you dont understand......

Toe in would promote understeer and reduce straight line speed.(marginally)
If you had 2 drivers who have differing styles i would set it up with near neutral toe .

The other question is you say you want the car to be slightly oversteer biased

Where in the corner do you want this ?
Entry ? Mid ? Exit ?

 

[Tj172]

Im taking the car to local motorsport Company tomorrow. That was why im having it set at 30mins toe out. I thought with that a bit of front camber would be a good place to start? Whilst still keeping it managable. And if i/we feel it needs adjustment we can go from there, im just trying to get a starting point to be honest, on my other track car i run 3.8deg negative and over a degree of toe out but the circumstances are not the same with this car. Its near standard to be fair suspension wise, and on road tyres. I like entry oversteer generally but of course the circuit, conditions and the level of talent available can play a part when i said ive always struggled to get my cars set up i ment by general garges with hunter systems etc i didnt mean the actual set up, just getting it set up.