time to brush up on my IT skills

[koi]

I have been looking into brushing up my IT skills and my god there are a lot of options! So far I have narrowed it down to doing the MCDST and then building this up towards the MCSA.

Has anyone here done these? Would you recommend doing actual evening courses for them or would I be ok with just learning in my own time and then doing the exams?

Thanks

 

[Cookie]

What are you aiming to get/achieve?

 

[koi]

Hope to get into system admin but plan to work my way up through doing user support whilst I do the courses.

 

[McBunny]

id rather be a street sweeper

 

[Cookie]

Hope to get into system admin but plan to work my way up through doing user support whilst I do the courses.

What do the job prospects look like up there for the jobs you want to do? No point in qualifying in something if there aren't any jobs to fill.

 

[Michael172]

Ive almost finished CCNA Sem4, and have my final in a month or 2, i doubt ill pass.

I have a 3 year course next, Im doing Desktop and Server (Microsoft) at college for the first year next year, along with a Degree in network management (which is spread over 3 years). The following year i am doing the ccna security, and 1 ccnp unit, and the final year i will be doing 3 units of the ccnp. Unfortuately there is guna be some programming from what i hear which i dont want to touch.

e/ Oh and i have to work for someone whilst doing all this !! I can go work in Frankfurt or i can stay at home and go to Loverpool or Beverly in Hull.

 

[koi]

Well been looking at jobs recently and quite a few are looking for MCDST which is why I'm considering it.

 

[Michael172]

I think that networking is a good choice to go for, like cisco and what not, but IMO most employers would prefer you to have some microsoft, especially server and the desktop form what i can see, and experience lol.

 

[McBunny]

experience over rides everything usually

 

[Michael172]

experience over rides everything usually

But the qualifications dont go a miss

 

[McBunny]

oh no not at all

but id make sure you want to work in this industry before you get too far

 

[koi]

Well have been doing IT support for the past year so just want to back this up with some credentials and also learn more

 

[dk]

think the mcsa is now replaced though with the 2008 accreditation, i'd say thats the better one to be looking at getting trained in as 2008 will be big his year, lots of people moving to it so they'll need some expertise in it!

Can't remember what its called now but they changed the names from MCSA and MCSE to some new thing just to confuse people. (MCTS maybe?)

 

[Michael172]

Any of you lot done ccna then ?

I cant remember s**t from the first few semesters lol.

 

[Cookie]

Any of you lot done ccna then ?

I cant remember s**t from the first few semesters lol.

I had one, now expired

 

[DMS]

I've got the MCSE: Security (Server 2003) and CCNA Security accreditations, and I'm en-route to the CCSP.

The MCSA/E is very useful if you're doing tech support, or managing a large Windows network. Even if you've got a lot of experience, you might still pick up a thing or two by studying the training materials. MCTS exams still count towards either the MCSA or MCSE accreditations, but they also count towards the new 2008 exam series (which means they're the best ones to go for at the moment, since you'll have less to do to upgrade your MCSE from 2003 to 2008 if you continue with it). I found the best material for revising for the MCSE exams were the CBT Nuggets videos.

If you want to go down the networking route, you'll probably need to do tech support first anyway.
CCNA is made easier if you have real-world experience of large networks beforehand IMO, particularly ones that use Cisco kit. A lot of my Cisco knowledge was gained by being thrown in at the deep end and having to configure the kit without prior experience. There are plenty of good resources online for free, but to pass the exams I'd still recommend playing about with the equipment and gettng some good training materials.

I actually brought a PIX 515E and replaced my home broadband router with it. Then I learnt how to configure it via the command line. I've had it for over 2 years and as I've learnt more and more, I've re-configured it and / or re-flashed it hundreds of times just to enable the features I want.

 

[Longy]

I've got an MCSE and I recommended it. Experience is king but learning stuff the right way can save a lot of time in the long run. If you want to get into IT then you will be forever learning and studying new stuff.

 

[ChrisR]

MCITP is the 2008 set of certs, agree with David I'd be going for those now over the 2003.

Also as said, think about what area you want to work in and train to suit, don't do a course then find a career that fits.

Depending on what you want to do there's loads of stuff out there

 

[PinkoCommie]

If you want to go down the networking route, you'll probably need to do tech support first anyway.
CCNA is made easier if you have real-world experience of large networks beforehand IMO, particularly ones that use Cisco kit. A lot of my Cisco knowledge was gained by being thrown in at the deep end and having to configure the kit without prior experience. There are plenty of good resources online for free, but to pass the exams I'd still recommend playing about with the equipment and gettng some good training materials.

I actually brought a PIX 515E and replaced my home broadband router with it. Then I learnt how to configure it via the command line. I've had it for over 2 years and as I've learnt more and more, I've re-configured it and / or re-flashed it hundreds of times just to enable the features I want.

+1

We get quite a few guys coming in as 1st line support where I work with CCNA's or Juniper firewall certification who can't troubleshoot a problem worth a damn. They can quote you the 7 layers of the OSI model at you, but show them a tcpdump and they haven't got the slightest clue what it means. They never make it out of their probationary period.

If you want to learn Cisco stuff in particular I can't reccomend GNS3 enough. Along with PEMU you can setup a virtual network. There's even instruction out there on how to use GNS3/PEMU so that you can use a PIX or ASA boot image and run it as a personal firewall on your PC.

Experience is king baby! I should know, I don't have an IT qualification to my name, but what I do have is 13 years experience in IT, starting from bottom rung helpdesk support monkey in a college to my now current 3rd level support engineer for a firewall/security management company (saying that, they're making me take the exams for all the stuff I support now due to our position as partners with most of the brands)

 

[DanCup]

I completed my MCDST last year, did a couple of MCITP's this year, and almost finished my exams for my MCSA in Server 2003. Just the dreaded 291 exam left.

Def the best route I found, I've been in IT 3 years and it's a pretty good certification track.

 

[ChrisR]

I don't have an IT qualification to my name

snap, bar a few token things I've picked up along the way that I've been made to do. But had nothing when coming to my current job.

 

[PinkoCommie]

snap, bar a few token things I've picked up along the way that I've been made to do. But had nothing when coming to my current job.

Ahh, a fellow paddler in the deep end

I realised not that long ago that my ability to pick up new systems and learn them quickly works against me in some ways. Whenever one of our retarded sales guys sells a managed service for devices not on our portfolio, that no one has any experience with, it pretty much always gets dropped in my lap :dapprove:

I swear those b*****ds would sell a a customer a fridge with management if they thought they could get a couple of quid out of it. My most recent favourite was the sales guy who sold a customer a new firewall as his current one was end-of-life for support. Customer had a Watchguard with built in ADSL, so as an upgrade, he sold him a Juniper SSG5 which doesn't support ADSL, then got all pissy when I called him on it. His reasoning behind it? "It would have cost £200 more for a SSG20 with ADSL and the customer wouldn't have gone for that". so instead of a fully managed solution, the customeer had to stick an ADSL modem in front of it, that we have no control over and will not support.

 

[ChrisR]

Ahh, a fellow paddler in the deep end

heh just never needed anything really. The ad for my current job had a list of things they wanted (MCSE, Prince2, CISSP, ITIL, plus some other stuff).

I didn't have them but the actual skills they wanted I knew inside out.

Getting a few bits now though and have got a couple of ms exams I've been meaning to book up for ages. I did have an MCSE booked up but cancelled it as there was no point, didn't think it was relevant to what I want to do so binned it to go do something else.

 

[Cookie]

I've been in IT 6 years and have no MS certs

 

[ChrisR]

I've been in IT 6 years and have no MS certs

snap again and tbh unless the boss wants me to I probably won't be taking the one I was going to do

 

[dk]

I completed my MCDST last year, did a couple of MCITP's this year, and almost finished my exams for my MCSA in Server 2003. Just the dreaded 291 exam left.

Def the best route I found, I've been in IT 3 years and it's a pretty good certification track.

is that the one which covers everything? not a nice one, lots to revise for.

I have certifications coming out of my arse tbh, i have MCSE, VCP (vmware certified professional - my hardest exam), STS (symantec technical specialist), too many HP ones to list including MASE (master accredited systems engineer) in servers, blades and storage, doubletake, lefthand install engineer, emc blah blah blah.

I am known as the company exam ho, cos i always pass, i mainly specialise in vmware, blades and hp storage though at the moment, so i do have experience in most of the certifications i hold, its a lot of hard work though, getting them and keeping them current. I think you need a balance of experience on the job and the letters to back it all up really, thats what customers and potential employers want to see.

Sometimes, when companies are asking for certain accreditations, its not all about getting someone who has them so they know about the subject, its also about getting certain accreditations as a reseller etc, if you can employ someone who already has them it saves them paying out for all the training etc.

I was headhunted by a company, and while they wanted me for my skills, they also wanted me as i had all the accreditations to fullfill their entire hp accreditation needs in one go a few weeks before the deadline for them needing to have them.

I didn't go as my company wanted to keep me, but its all weapons, and in the industry as it is at the moment, the more weapons you can have, the better off you will be, never turn down training.

 

[Cookie]

dk, does Softcat have a policy whereby you have to pay a proportion of all training if you leave within 2 years of doing it? Every company I've worked for thus far (not sure about the current one) has had a policy like that, to stop people just taking some training and running

 

[koi]

Well I done computing at uni 4 years ago, time flies and I'm getting on a bit!! Will definitely try and get some certification as I don't think the stuff I learned from uni helps much in the real world.

Going to go have a look at the training guides for the MCDST and see if it looks straight forward enough to go through it on my own and then book the exams. After this and some more experience in a help desk role I will look into the MCITP and move on from that.

 

[cava83]

You have to start somewhere.

Unfortunately, reading books does not teach you what you would learn in a working environment, however, you have to give them a chance to learn.

Catch22.

+1

We get quite a few guys coming in as 1st line support where I work with CCNA's or Juniper firewall certification who can't troubleshoot a problem worth a damn. They can quote you the 7 layers of the OSI model at you, but show them a tcpdump and they haven't got the slightest clue what it means. They never make it out of their probationary period.

If you want to learn Cisco stuff in particular I can't reccomend GNS3 enough. Along with PEMU you can setup a virtual network. There's even instruction out there on how to use GNS3/PEMU so that you can use a PIX or ASA boot image and run it as a personal firewall on your PC.

Experience is king baby! I should know, I don't have an IT qualification to my name, but what I do have is 13 years experience in IT, starting from bottom rung helpdesk support monkey in a college to my now current 3rd level support engineer for a firewall/security management company (saying that, they're making me take the exams for all the stuff I support now due to our position as partners with most of the brands)

 

[Darren S]

+1

We get quite a few guys coming in as 1st line support where I work with CCNA's or Juniper firewall certification who can't troubleshoot a problem worth a damn. They can quote you the 7 layers of the OSI model at you, but show them a tcpdump and they haven't got the slightest clue what it means. They never make it out of their probationary period.

If you want to learn Cisco stuff in particular I can't reccomend GNS3 enough. Along with PEMU you can setup a virtual network. There's even instruction out there on how to use GNS3/PEMU so that you can use a PIX or ASA boot image and run it as a personal firewall on your PC.

Experience is king baby! I should know, I don't have an IT qualification to my name, but what I do have is 13 years experience in IT, starting from bottom rung helpdesk support monkey in a college to my now current 3rd level support engineer for a firewall/security management company (saying that, they're making me take the exams for all the stuff I support now due to our position as partners with most of the brands)

^^^ - great post!

The problem with a lot of qualifications is that they are fine if you want to go deep into a specific area (as McBunny says) - but they are far too specific for daily usage. The exception to these I feel are the W2*** Server courses as they are generalised and cover a wide scope of options and attributes.

Take this morning for example. I've rebuilt an XP machine, started on another that refuses to boot without IDE being enabled in BIOS (yet it has no IDE devices onboard? :S), discussed some initial requests on SQL tables and then just finished a half-hour conference call to discuss a presentation and channel change on our ISDN30 circuit.

I could easily pursue an accredetation into each one of those areas, but it wouldn't be needed. If I were part of a large corporate, them maybe I would need to specialise. But on a day to day situation, general knowledge and experience is far, far more key.

I guess when you're thrown in at the deep end, you need to multi-task and then rely on the specialists out there for when things get really deep!

D.

 

[dk]

dk, does Softcat have a policy whereby you have to pay a proportion of all training if you leave within 2 years of doing it? Every company I've worked for thus far (not sure about the current one) has had a policy like that, to stop people just taking some training and running

nope, which is why i love it, they allow me to do all the training i want, and i do a hell of a lot as i love learning about new things, the natural thing at the end of the course is to jsut do the exam really to backup what you have supposedly learnt in the training.

I know I am very fortunate in having a company that lets me do this amount of training, and especially so in that i don't have any contractural agreement on paying it back if i leave, if i did i would be in trouble as my training bill is in the tens of thousands each year, although we do get the vendors to pay for a lot of it as its in their interest for me to be training on their technologies to promote them to customers.

 

[PinkoCommie]

You have to start somewhere.

Unfortunately, reading books does not teach you what you would learn in a working environment, however, you have to give them a chance to learn.

Catch22.

It is indeed a catch22. Though it does seem that the guys who come in with CCNA's fail (especially the self study ones), while the ones who come in with no real networking experience but willingness to give it a try pick it up.

It's weird. It's not as if we only give them a couple of weeks. Probation period is 6 months at my place.

Sometimes I suspect that people have heard that a CCNA can land you a halfway decent playing IT job, so they do it purely because it'll get them a job without having any real techy nouse.

 

[Cookie]

I hate really long probations.. if you haven't proved yourself in 3 months, then you sure as hell aren't going to improve substantially enough to prove yourself in 6

@ dk - Softcat is one of those firms with a reception area littered in those poxy vendor specific 'insert metal here' levels of support, isn't it ? I HATE that.

 

[PinkoCommie]

I hate really long probations.. if you haven't proved yourself in 3 months, then you sure as hell aren't going to improve substantially enough to prove yourself in 6

I would tend to agree, but at our place, because we manage other peoples firewalls, it's mainly because it takes an age to learn all the different processes for each client.

@ dk - Softcat is one of those firms with a reception area littered in those poxy vendor specific 'insert metal here' levels of support, isn't it ? I HATE that.

Heh heh, our reception is like that. We have a wall covered with various s**tty plaques. That's precisely why I have to take F5 BigIP-LTM and Juniper IDS exams on Monday afternoon. I mean, we don't even have any clients who have a managed service for the F5, and we only have two clients with the IDS's and to be honest, theres not a whole hell of a lot to do when you manage the IDS's, you pretty much update the definitions and occasionally put a new node rule in when they get a new wwebserver or something.

 

[Phill1978]

I had one, now expired

same here.

for networking not server work though lol

 

[Cookie]

same here.

for networking not server work though lol

I used the knowledge I got from my CCNA maybe twice... never been in a dedicated networks role

 

[cava83]

Have you been there?

The receptionist was quite cute when I went there. yum.

I too was blinded by the certificate waiting area.

I hate really long probations.. if you haven't proved yourself in 3 months, then you sure as hell aren't going to improve substantially enough to prove yourself in 6

@ dk - Softcat is one of those firms with a reception area littered in those poxy vendor specific 'insert metal here' levels of support, isn't it ? I HATE that.

 

[Cookie]

Nope never been there, but I've been to similar places before

 

[ChrisR]

We don't have anything in our contracts about paying any training costs back if we leave within x years. One guy had loads and then left recently, not a bad way to get trained up for free

Being sent on some course next week as we had a guy who they'd booked up on some course but he got the sack before taking it, so they had some credit to use up lol

 

[Cookie]

Once my probation is over, I'm gonna try and tot up as many courses as I can

Qualifications should lead to payrises \o/