Track day suspension (KW V2s?)

[Cup_Phil]

Right,

Let's have it out with the people who actually do track days/sprints/tin tops

I've been offered some KW V2's pretty cheap, and I want rid of my bilsteins as not being adjustable I really struggle to get the car setup right

Anyone got any experience with KW's? I was hoping for AST's but the sheer cost of them is too much to justify in an occasional track day and weekend toy car
Is the adjustment on the KW's enough to play around with and setup a stripped car with cage on sticky rubber? (I'm gonna be running Direzzas)

Cheers guys

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

I had a set of V2's on my old MKII Golf, the car handled really well on them, I had them on max damping on the front so was a bit stiff on bumpy road but did over 3000 miles round europe on them, a track day at brands and probably 20k plus miles in this country.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Oh nice - so no problems with adjustors seizing up or anything then?

 

[Dan@SJM]

I've just got rid of my KW V3's from my LCR. They were truely amazing tbh. PM me a price for your bilsteins

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Had KW V2's for 1 track day - too soft on max returned and got AST's, you'll be sorry in the long run if you don't push the budget up and buy some higher spec AST or similar....2nd (or 3rd - 4th maybe) hand AST on here I saw for £900....

I'm sure Clio #12 had Kw V2's - was on AST's after 3/4 of the season had gone....say no more...

If you only track once in a while kw v2's for sure....

 

[Cup_Phil]

Realistically I'm not gonna push as hard as you tin top guys do - I'll be doing 6-10 track days next year, and a trip to monaco/spa/ring in it

2nd hand AST's are very rare and new are £1600
The KW V2's are £800

I'm hoping they're good enough for track day fun on R888's and also for the weekend north york moors blasts.
I've read a few threads where Fred seems to think they're good so I've got my fingers crossed lol

If a set of AST's popped up sub £1k I'd go for them but I can't see it myself

Dan - PM me an offer mate, they need some bearings replacing at Bilstein but I understand they do that for free as they're only 18months old and only done 3000 miles
I just want the adjustability for track

 

[Cup_Phil]

Lewis is selling his AST's but they're 182 fitment so I'd have to swap hubs. And they're pretty old.

I'm conflicted between the hassle of that and the age - or 3 month old KW's that fit straight on

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Ah, just about to post the AST link but they're no good to you, wrong fittment.

You won't be sorry with the KW's, I was very impressed at first.....

 

[Cup_Phil]

That's cool - if I get a year out of them doing amateur days I'll be happy

I'll have a much bigger budget next winter to enter it into sprints/tin tops so I can always sell the KW's on for some AST's in a years time
I'm pretty restricted by budget at the moment - £8/900 is about the most I can stretch to

 

[Chip-mk1]

For driving across europe etc and doing some trackdays, you dont need AST's IMHO, I am absolutely sure the tintop guys would totally disagree as they care if they are a second a lap slower or not, but on a trackday do you care enough about that to end up spending so much on suspension that you then end up able to afford less trackdays next year?

I'd sooner do 10 trackdays on cup shocks and eibachs than 5 on AST's lol

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

Phil the adjusters did seize but I never tried to move them for three years so I expect they would. They are still on the car now as it was up for sale again last week on ebay.

 

[Cooksport]

There is a Sportline 1 AST kit available. Which is cheaper than the Sportline 2's which are most common.

We are currently developing a kit which is going to be more affordable, we are looking at more of a clubsport kit which will be non-coilover rear.

Josh

 

[Chip-mk1]

There is a Sportline 1 AST kit available. Which is cheaper than the Sportline 2's which are most common.

We are currently developing a kit which is going to be more affordable, we are looking at more of a clubsport kit which will be non-coilover rear.

Josh

Sounds like a good product to be bringing out, who will the bodies be made by?
The h&r ones made by bilstein are like that and are quite good but tend to ship with slightly too road orientated springs on them IMHO, would be nice to see a trackday version of the same sort of thing, especially if using that sort of quality supplier in the first place rather than the cheap and nasty rubbish Ktec do for example

 

[Tony Hunter]

AST or similar....2nd (or 3rd - 4th maybe) hand AST on here I saw for £900....

These maybe on there 5th ownership, but they haven't done ant work.
Dan didn't do any miles on them, we didn't use them, we sold them to a lad in Scotland, and they sat in the box I made for them for 6 weeks, Nick only had them for a month or so.

So they have done the rounds but done no work at all. £900 is a good price, esp if you get my special box with them.

 

[LewisTaylor]

These maybe on there 5th ownership, but they haven't done ant work.
Dan didn't do any miles on them, we didn't use them, we sold them to a lad in Scotland, and they sat in the box I made for them for 6 weeks, Nick only had them for a month or so.

So they have done the rounds but done no work at all. £900 is a good price, esp if you get my special box with them.

I've done about 500 metres on them lol test runs up the road in my car is as far as they have got...

 

[Tony Hunter]

There you go then.

 

[LewisTaylor]

Tony, do you know if they would take a PMS top mount kit? As Phil was saying he would want to use it on the AST's if he got them.. And would the AST top mounts i'd be left with fit other coilovers so i could sell them on?

 

[Tony Hunter]

James (BigAsh), runs them and he has Pure top mounts. Don't know about the other way round.

 

[Dan519]

V1's and V2's are all made in china FYI. Cheap stuff sold expensively

 

[Jay Payne]

Tony, do you know if they would take a PMS top mount kit? As Phil was saying he would want to use it on the AST's if he got them.. And would the AST top mounts i'd be left with fit other coilovers so i could sell them on?

I think ast top mounts need a little spacer machined to fit other brands of coilover but dont quote me. Josh will know im sure.



Phill have you asked Dan 519 about Spax stuff? If we didnt already have the ast's off ,y old trackcar we'd of investigated them. The good thing would be you could get them rebuilt/changed to suit etc. Just like we did with ast

 

[Cup_Phil]

I suspect you could make the AST's fit PMS top mounts because they just run a little shim inside the joint - I think James had a new shim made to fit
But those AST's are 182 fitment - so I'd have to change to 182 hubs which is a bit of a ball ache and extra money

I did look at the Spax setup at Cliosport Saturday - it looks nice BUT and I don't want to be a dick as I value Dan's opinion, they didn't look very well made compared to KW and AST...

I'm not sure about being made in China but I thought the KW V2's were essentially koni adjustables with a damping rate that KW spec'd - and I've only heard good things about Koni adjustables

I hate all this - I'm in the same situation I was 18months ago when I bought the Bilsteins - money sat in the bank but so many conflicting opinions and last time I ended up with something completely wrongly spec'd for the car

 

[Cup_Phil]

There is a Sportline 1 AST kit available. Which is cheaper than the Sportline 2's which are most common.

We are currently developing a kit which is going to be more affordable, we are looking at more of a clubsport kit which will be non-coilover rear.

Josh

This would be ideal as I assume the high price is mostly because the rear units are quite complex and I'm not really bothered about an "all in one" coilover rear - I don't see much advantage of it unless I want to go lower than it currently is but I'm happy with the height

Timescales for development probably mean I'll already have bought something though as I want to get the car back on the road in the new year

 

[finch wxm]

KW are built by Koni to KW specification. They are a great piecce of kit

 

[Cup_Phil]

^^ That's what I'd been told, built in the netherlands

 

[sprintcup]

Keep us updated on these as I'd be interested, need to be able to drive on the rd, I'm cuurrently running B14's which are great on the fast sweeping bends but have a problem with hitting the inner arches at the fronts on hard turn in, a little to soft tbh.

Regards Russ...

There is a Sportline 1 AST kit available. Which is cheaper than the Sportline 2's which are most common.

We are currently developing a kit which is going to be more affordable, we are looking at more of a clubsport kit which will be non-coilover rear.

Josh

 

[Chip-mk1]

^^ That's what I'd been told, built in the netherlands

More like Finally assembled in holland after the parts are made in china but that's not an issue much these days, as well as making cheap rubbish the Chinese are tooled up to make good quality products as well. How and what they are made from is what matters more than what country they are made in.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm now sat up late at night reading the reviews of people with the Spax setup - thinking they look pretty good
Damping and compression adjustment, £840 brand new, full coilover rears.... hrmmmm

 

[Chip-mk1]

Spax are ok, fine for road and trackday use. Not what I would pick to go racing. Same sort of level as h&r or kw etc. buy any of those secondhand and you can then get your money back when you go ast later on.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I'm think it sounds like AST are recommended - but need £1400-1600 for a set
If I can get these 3 month old KW V2's for £800 I should be able to sell them again in a year without a huge loss and go AST's when the budget allows. It sounds like swapping the front springs from the 60nm setup to 80nm might help if I run 888s/direzzas - so might do that for the sake of £100 in springs

Spax seem tempting but there are virtually no reviews from anyone who's used them in anger

 

[Dan519]

I'm now sat up late at night reading the reviews of people with the Spax setup - thinking they look pretty good
Damping and compression adjustment, £840 brand new, full coilover rears.... hrmmmm

less than that at the moment. They're £150 off RRP until the end of december, making them £749.99 from me

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah I'm think it sounds like AST are recommended - but need £1400-1600 for a setIf I can get these 3 month old KW V2's for £800 I should be able to sell them again in a year without a huge loss and go AST's when the budget allows. It sounds like swapping the front springs from the 60nm setup to 80nm might help if I run 888s/direzzas - so might do that for the sake of £100 in springsSpax seem tempting but there are virtually no reviews from anyone who's used them in anger

800 for set of kw shocks you can sell in a year for 700 probably sounds better than 800 for a set of spax you will only prob get 500 for if you are lucky. No brainer IMHO.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I think that's probably the clincher
I spent £940 on the bilsteins and got £350 back - so I've lost £600 on suspension that's done 2,000 miles lol 30p a mile *sigh*

Dan - do you happen to know the spring rates on the spax stuff? Is it 60/40nm like the KW's and bilsteins?

 

[Dan519]

yes they're 60/40Nm

 

[NorthloopCup]

I run kw v2's on my cup phil and tbh they're a excellent bit of kit. Mine see's road and track abuse, but even on full hard at the rear they were to soft on track............so I got them revalved and got a set of stiffer rear springs made! Job done! Works extremely well now on track and still drives well on the road.

Build quality wise, they are excellent. Never had the adjusters seize up and the camber adjustment on them is a thought out really well. It just makes the job so much easier.

 

[BIGASH]

Mmm tricky one Phil, The AST's do work with the PMS top mounts no issue. I got a little bush made up to go inside the PMS sleeve as the top shaft diameter is smaller but I doubt it'd be an issue I just have OCD.

I do rate the spax stuff and I would go with these over the KW's. I can't really say much on the KW's but I personally wouldn't buy another set.

It's like all things with modifying cars which I always toss up in my head do you go with the known working solution that is maybe a little sheep like or do you try something but risk it not working out and then wasting money in the process. Unfortunately for me I can't justify spending money on stuff at the moment unless I know it's going to work well. I keep having loads of idea's that could work really well but can't risk wasting money on it if it doesn't work so i'm having to just do the normal things that will given a known improvement.

Overall I would just be patient and wait until I could afford a new set of AST sportline 1's or 2's. You know they are going to work well and you're not going to have to spend money changing valving/springs. I would recommend Cooksport all day long they were awesome at getting me sorted with mine Give them a call and see what a set of sportline 1's will cost without the AST top mounts! If you are going to use them on the road then don't go too silly with the spring rates as I have driven mine up and down my road and it's bloody horrific lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

Thanks mate - I really appreciate the reply ( you should try sleeping though lol )

I'm so conflicted. Unfortunately it's not a case of "waiting a few more months" and having more money, because of the big euro road trip next year, and Leah still being at Uni, and I still need to pay for towing license, trailer, etc.... I have a really tight budget to get the car back on the road. If I spend the extra for AST's it will mean missing 3 or 4 track days next year which I don't really want to do

The spax are tempting as they have 2 way adjustment on them and I agree I don't really want to get into revalving and re-springing anything or they'll quickly become as expensive as AST's. My major concern with spax is virtually no-one has used them on track and the ones that have said they had to put them on the stiffest setting.

I just need something that's going to be 90% good enough for this year and not frustrate me and ideally hold it's value as well as possible until next year then I can put AST's on when money is a little better for me.

 

[Chip-mk1]

what have you got currently? if its just for a year why not simply live with what you have?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I have bilsteins currently - but with absolutely no adjustment at all other than height they've really frustrated me on track this last year.
The car has been really understeery and everyone I've taken out has said "stiffen the back up" to which I've had to reply "I can't"

 

[The Dominator]

I have spax rsx on my 182, brilliant suspension IMO

 

[Nick172Cup]

I have spax rsx on my 182, brilliant suspension IMO

Do you track your car?

My opinion is to keep what you've got and go with a set of AST 1's with topmounts when funds allow. The 1's are more than ample for track and race, hell the burpspeed guys still run AST 1's on their car and they're front running. Obviously if you can afford more go for the AST 2's.