Track width questions

[TR.]

Morning folks,
Firstly hello, new member and in advance any help is greatly appreciated.
I've looked at the similar threads on here and they seem to support what we've been seeing, but to reiterate and for some fresh perspective...
As far as racecars or well developed track cars go, we've noticed many have huge track width differences front to back on similar chassis', Clios, 205's, older Fiestas etc.
Some have had as much as 35mm widened front track while keeping the rear where it originally was besides any wheel offset difference over stock, and minor changes from toe / camber altering shims / washers.
How does this stack up with what you see? I already run stiffer springs on the rear than the front but presumably that much difference would lead to needing to up front spring rates further.
Any thoughts, opinion or input will be handy, many thanks.

*Worth noting many cars in question have modified / extended / bolt on arches up front.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

@NorthloopCup

 

[JB21]

Don't be fooled that a wider track is always better, don't see any harm in say 20mm spacers but to wide and it'll make the car worse handling wise. I just run wider offset wheels and mine handles great as is, maybe 20mm spacers and, or wider tyres would help but it's not top of my list for handling mods.

Regarding the stiffer springs I find a stiffer rear handles better, as it leans towards oversteer but this is such a personal preference.

 

[NorthloopCup]

There's various ways to increase track width and I've experimented with most of those ways!
Spacers will knock the s**t out of the scrub geometry if you go much over 15mm. It might look good, but it just won't be right in terms of handling/steering feel.
You also have negative effects if you don't widen the track width and move the strut tops out at the same time. Basically the more of an angle on the damper, the less effective the spring, so you'd need to over spring it.

Not really sure what you're asking though @TR. ? Are you asking for a base setup for your clio?

 

[TR.]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated and food for thought

JB21, right there with you on the rear end being stiffer, would much rather have to catch the car than have it not want to turn

NorthloopCup, scrub radius is a legitimate concern for me having had different cars before which have felt either vague or right through to so heavy you struggle to hold onto it by mid corner from previous owners 'adjustments' altering it.

In fairness you've hit the nail on the head, what am I actually asking? I'm not sure I even know, so I'm sorry for being so vague... just re-read my post and even I'm struggling to understand it. I guess the crux of it is how assuming front geo is relatively useable and within what you're happy with, how much of a cars inital handling capability comes from this difference in front and rear widths? I'd have thought that in say a car where the set up was essentially square, you could still overcome any shortcoming with spring rates / more rear bar / toe/camber / tyre pressure changes? But then it seems strange that experienced people can pin-point a track width variance alone to a corner exit behaviour factor. Maybe not even Clio specific for this question when it boils down to it, just a general thought if that makes more sense :up:

Thanks again for your help and hope this clears it up a little.

 

[JB21]

Maybe see what the Clio cup racers were running and copy that set-up as surly they're at the pinnacle of handling with all the R&D that went into them?

 

[TR.]

100%, good call, thanks :smile:
Apologies for the not-so-Clio-specific query, was just curious as to the general consesus across platforms really, well as far as small hatches/saloons go, and know that we're blessed with a well handling car from the outset as well as people like yourselves who know the score and have experience :up: Was really curious as to the general premise of statements like I've been hearing. Might have to invest in a good book like Milliken of similar to educate myself :blush:

Out of interest, would you know where to find rough / general setup info on the Mk2 or even Mk1 Cup Cars? Am I right in thinking they upped front caster as well? Seem to recall the Mk1 front bumpers having a cheeky trim to accomodate the wheel sitting further foward on the racecars but not certain by any means.

 

[JB21]

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/clio-cup-race-car.504346/