Tracking/alignment help please!

[Liam_Dynamique]

Right...

For a while my steering has felt a bit vague at times, and id been noticing that when i was going in a straight line my wheel was slightly to the left instead of straight. I thought it might be getting worse and was annoying me anyway so took it to get the tracking done on friday. Paid 23.50 to get the supertrack gear on the front wheels and that was that. Left the garage and the wheel was to the right instead of the left now and it still didnt feel right and id checked the tyres and everything.

Took it back in there today and when i moaned they put it on the computerised SUN tracking and alignment gear for free. The tracking was way out which showed what a good job the monkey did on friday and they set it up to the factory settings for a dynamique on standard 15s. Now the wheel is back to the left again and feels much worse!! Seems to actually pull to the side as well and does not feel steady at all under hard braking. Ive not been back there and probably wont bother either, but they did say when the computer was hooked up that the rear beam was spot on and it was the toe settings that were well out. So can anybody shed any lights on why my car is like this now - nothing looks bent or damaged at all?! Pi**sing me right off now and not wanting to drive the car.

The settings at the moment are alledgedly:

Caster 2.5 Left camber -0.5 Right Camber -0.2

-0.05 toe both sides.

rear camber -1.3deg either side.

The car is dropped 60mm on std shocks and is on et38 17s.

HHeeeellllllppppppppp!!!!!!!

 

[BenR]

car seems straight.

the steering posision is their fault. Its set ot straight ahead then held inplace. Obvioulsy he didnt bother making it dead straight.

i cant spot anything.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

guess ill just pay to have it done again somewhere else. he blamed the bad setting from friday on the guy not clamping the wheel properly then, but you dont think hes done it right either?

OH, one more thing i wondered but they didnt have a clue about in the tyre place... when they were setting the computer up, they had to choose the make model and wheel size - if i was to get someone to set the geometry up as a cup instead of a dynamique would this make any noticeable difference to how it drives etc?

thanks Ben.

 

[Mark]

if i was u mate i would go back and demand its done properly as u have payed your money and ur are entitled to good service. its not your fault that that garage employs monkeys, those monkeys could get u killed if u brake and it pulls in to on coming traffic or a tree.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

thats what i did today and had it on that tracking computer that they normally charge a ton for (free of charge) - but they still made a bollox of it! think id rather pay the money elsewhere, roll with the punch and get a car that drives straight.

 

[Mark]

still not your fault mate needs to be done right even if u have to phone the manager and make a complaint.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

know what youre saying, but its some little rinky-dink place though where they can just tell you to f-off as they dont have some area manager or anyone to go over their heads to.

going back to the bit about Cup geometry... in the words of B2K "Bump Bump Bump!"

 

[Mark]

little rinky-dink place might have some problems then mate

sorry wat was that BUMP BUMP BUMP

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

anyone?

are the toe/camber/caster settings much different on the cup than the dynamique? can my dynamique be set up with these settings and will it be any improvement if so?

cheers guys!

 

[JAY172]

the settings will be different. you can adjust tracking,you could adjust camber with some k-tec camber correction bolts but the castor cant be adjusted.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

would there be any gain to be had in the handling department by trying to get my suspension geometry set up like a cup then?

 

[JAY172]

not really because the cup has uprated springs and dampers as well. the wheel offset also provides a wider track. you would be best to just uprate your suspension. your steering wheel should be straight after an allignment check or at least they should have straightened it. maybe the 17s are making the handling a bit off.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

Cups are et38 arent they? so that would be the same as mine already surely?

got -60mm springs in already and am looking at adding dampers as well now. anyone know what the toe and camber settings are for a cup then?

thanks Jay.

Liam

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Swop the wheels front to rear, seems to make a differance for some reason

It wont sort the steering wheel position out, but may handle different

Let me know how you get on after doing this

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

will let you know Mike, thanks.

Any input on my Cup geometry thoughts?!

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by Liam_Dynamique on 19 April 2004


Cups are et38 arent they? so that would be the same as mine already surely?

got -60mm springs in already and am looking at adding dampers as well now. anyone know what the toe and camber settings are for a cup then?

thanks Jay.

Liam





oh right missed that bit. swap the wheels around as mike says because one of the tyres may have worn/have non visible damage or be slightly mishaped. have had it at work before where a tyre has caused the vehicle to pull to one side even though it visibly looks ok.

 

[Mike@Rentech]

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1082416437__cupgeometry.jpg

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Thats the only adjustable settings for the cup according to the repair manual

Also recommended tyre pressures for the clio cup from the manual state

Front 2.7 bar

Rear 2.2 bar

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

So does that mean my idea of improving my handling just by changing the toe and camber is down the drain? my toe settings are at -0.05degrees either side now.

one more thing, what are those figures H1-H2=etc etc?

the setting that was on the computer for the set-up they did my car on was H5-H2=83, dont think the dude really had a scooby what he was doing though?!

 

[JAY172]

think that tracking meassurement is a standard thing for all models. every one ive done at work has been 0 +/- 10

 

[BenR]

you can change how your car drives by altering the suspension geometry. Its std practice when sorting the handling on a vehicle.

But the only thing that you can adj on your car is the toe, camber and castor will need modifications to the suspension links to make then adjutable.

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by Liam_Dynamique on 20 April 2004


So does that mean my idea of improving my handling just by changing the toe and camber is down the drain? my toe settings are at -0.05degrees either side now.

one more thing, what are those figures H1-H2=etc etc?

the setting that was on the computer for the set-up they did my car on was H5-H2=83, dont think the dude really had a scooby what he was doing though?!





h1 h2 etc are referring to measurring points on the vehicle to meassure underbody heights. you need to input all the underbody heights to carry out the allignment check.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

so is it possible that this bloke has the wrong setting in for underbody height and that this has thrown it out? the car is lowered after all so id imagine that would make a difference?

went back in their today (but was in someone else car) and spoke to them about it and he was trying to say that from the way i described it that it might be down to a collapsed bearing or a binding brake - think id have noticed that though wouldnt i?!

its looking like im going to have to fork out some more ££ and get some decent wheel and tyre specialists to look at it i guess - the bloke in this place said bring it down to renault london west but they will immediately say its lowered on 17s so thats the problem and that the warranty wont cover it now anyway.

*sighs*

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

bumpety bump

 

[alnug]

ok here goes,

From the pulling you describe and the tracking settings that you have given...Im sorry to say but i dont think it is tracking. Heres what you should do.

1) Jack up the car both sides at the front, check for binding brakes by rotating wheels....if they rotate then most likely not that, if they grab then your brakes need sorting (cleaning), only if the wheels dont want to budge at all will it cause your car to pull...so you can cancel out brakes at this point.

2) Swop the two front tyres around and go for a drive, has the pull change...or the feel of the steering changed? If it has then it is the tyres.

Much of the time the tracking can be spot on but the car still pull, this could be down to the development of conicity of the tyres, my car had this and it made the car damn hairy to drive...it seemed very unstable. Many time you can get the car almost straight by swopping and moving tyres but now there is a better way....have you heard of the Hunter GSP9700 balancer? http://209.176.154.132/http://209.176.154.132/, this thing measures tyre balancing and even tells you where the tyres should be placed to give the least lateral force (which is what you feel now). I would suggest you find one of these machines near you and check out the tyres. Its pretty much impossible to see conicity.

Also contact these people to locate the nearest machine http://www.pro-align.co.uk/gsp9700.htmhttp://www.pro-align.co.uk/gsp9700.htm

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

thanks for that mate, will have to look into that it seems... although can only swap the wheels back to front on each side as the Toyos are directional.

just occured to me as well that it has felt out with both my standard 15s on and with the 17s on?!

anyone had a bearing go on a dynamique (think fred has?), just wondered would i know straight away if one of mine was on the way out?

thanks again for the replies guys.

Liam