Trophy beats VXR/Golf GTi/Fiesta ST

[MarkCup]

Probably been written up before (?)...

I've just got the latest issue of Autocar, and thay time, in both wet and dry conditions, the Trophy against a Golf GTi, Astra VXR, and Fiesta ST.

In the dry, the difference was only a second or so (in favour of the Clio) over the other three, but in the wet that difference stretched out to about 2.5 seconds - a positive indication of a well sorted chassis if ever I saw one.

I'm leaning more and more towards one now...

 

[Nafoff]

na you love you cup way to much....

 

[Mattie h]

isnt a fiesta ST only 130bhp??? cd b wrong as i havnt checkd the specs since they came out n my memories pants, but if there are.....beeting it by a second is shizle!

 

[Pete]

Fiesta st is 150bhpish

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

What a turd test.

 

[Ali]

In that case it's bloody slow ^^^ Not even vaguely close to the clio.

 

[JBarber]

in Evo mag (Oct 2005, issue 84) there are some lap times around Bedford Autodome's West Circuit. The 182 Cup was the fastest hot hotch, beating the Astra VXR (not by much), Megane Trophy, Leon Cupra R, Golf GTI mk5 & Cooper S.

Fastest time was a Caterham R500 Evo in 1.19.62 followed by Porsche 911 GT3 RS in 1.23.85. The Clio was 1.33.10.

 

[182_blue]

lol, track this track that, how many people care what a car can do on a track, its the real world were it matters, not dissing the trophy by the way

 

[MarkCup]

What a turd test.

Good, considered response S_M.

Or am I missing something fundamental?

 

[Sir_Dave]

I also thought the test was rubbish, im used to a strict diet of Evo magazine and autocar was simply useless.

Not enough information about how the cars drove or anything really, i bought the mag, read the 'poor' drivers cars test and threw it away

 

[Big G]

lol, track this track that, how many people care what a car can do on a track, its the real world were it matters, not dissing the trophy by the way

I have to agree here; our pot holed, badly maintained roads are a far cry from the billiard table smooth tracks.

I remember Autocar had a test where the 182 Cup was quicker than a standard Impreza WRX by a second or do. Well, I test drove a WRX recently and whilst it was utterly boring to drive, it had much better usable traction and power than my 182 did so it felt so much better on the roads.

That said, find a smooth surfaced B road and you're laughing.

 

[SOHROB]

st is lacking in bhp but the torque figures are very very similar and peak power is lower in the revs than the trophy so in the real world there wouldnt be huge gap,not enough to call the st slow

 

[Steve2004]

st is lacking in bhp but the torque figures are very very similar and peak power is lower in the revs than the trophy so in the real world there wouldnt be huge gap,not enough to call the st slow

Yes the ST produces it's 32 less bhp at a whopping 500rpm lower in the rev range. Plus if you look at the power-to-weight of the two cars, 168/ton vs. 132/ton.

Nice

 

[MarkCup]

I think everyone's missed my point...what got me was not how fast the Trophy is relative to the others, but the fact that a wet surface has less of an impact on its' ability to make progress...

Golf - 15.0s longer in the wet
Astra - 15.8s
Fiesta - 15.9s
Trophy - 14.2s

Does that not say something about its' chassis setup?

 

[SOHROB]

steve2004 if you read it again i said torque not bhp.

 

[Phill1978]

I think everyone's missed my point...what got me was not how fast the Trophy is relative to the others, but the fact that a wet surface has less of an impact on its' ability to make progress...

Golf - 15.0s longer in the wet
Astra - 15.8s
Fiesta - 15.9s
Trophy - 14.2s

Does that not say something about its' chassis setup?

yes it does m8 but everyones poo poo`ing for some reason, if i got H&R`s on my cup with just the back seats out it would match the trophy if not beat it once fully wound down. in fact although the remote resovours are good on rough roads i cant see that they will be better than a decent set i.e FK,H&R,LEDA coilovers on the track.

what im trying to say is the 182 owners on here and cup owners can be as fast as that if not faster with £750 worth of properly setup coliovers which is frankly amazing considering the huge torque of those turbo cars like the vxr and bhp also the huge cost to buy.

as for the golf gti is anyone supprised it got beat by a clio trophy with only 20 extra hp but over 300kg`s heavier and 17"/18" wheels ? lol

 

[SOHROB]

Im with you on that meggerman, a suspension upgrade and possibly brakes upgrading and a 182 should have no trouble with a trophy plus save some pennies

 

[Munson]

My 182Cup is the best car I have ever driven in the wet. I've not driven any car beforehand that is so little effected by wet tarmac, in terms of its ability to make progress.

 

[ChrisO182]

Have they done a lap time in the full fat 182 on the same track before? Any 1 know what it was?
Well impressed with that time for the clio against cars like the VXR with loads more power and torque, just shows how well set-up it really is.

 

[benji&eka]

the fiesta st is POO my mates got one, had it 9months and now he's gettin rid. what a bag of!

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

And in the wet the Trophy posted a quicker lap time than the Ferrari F430

 

[Rich]

A good car to have over here where it rains all the beedin time then!

 

[rcp]

I have to say the Clio 182 has amazing grip in the wet after driving it hard at the Brands trackday in August when it was so wet you could hardly see where you were going. The tyres are very impressive.

 

[JJ!]

Good read for those who take there cars on the track, not so good for the majority who just drive em on the roads at legal speeds!

 

[Phill1978]

the fiesta st is POO my mates got one, had it 9months and now he's gettin rid. what a bag of!

hmm.. i wouldnt go that far, of course there not as raw as the clio, and in fact the clio would piss on it however given the audience which ford usually targets there still fast if you look at that time, how much do they cost ? if its same or more than the clio then i retract that last statement.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Good, considered response S_M.

Or am I missing something fundamental?

Not missing owt mate.

It's a turd test for teh following reasons:

1: The trophy is smaller, lighter and therefore going to stand a good chance of beating heavier cars in the wet.

2: The trophy has a trickier suspension setup than the ST and more power, so will whup it round the track.

3: What tyres are they all wearing? They should all be wearing the same boots, but I suspect that they aren't.

Therefore the test is dogshit, but then it is Autocar.

 

[Munson]

Surely up to a point, the chassis is tweaked and tuned based upon the tyres it's going to use? Why should they all be wearing the same boots?

Your first two points are a bit like saying it only won because it's a faster car...well duh!

I had a race with an F1 car the other day - it only beat me because it had 800bhp :clown:

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Exactly. Therefore the test is turd. The quickest car with the best chassis and tyres won. What's the point of the test?

 

[Lagerlout]

jesus Swervin, you do talk some sh*te. It's blatantly obvious to me your argueing purely for thesake of it. You dislike Mk2's in general, which is fine. Whether this is because you are jealous or what I don't know, but it's making you (who comes across as a relatively intelligent guy) look like an idiot.

You say there is no point in the test because " the fastest car with the best chassis won". So what is the point of any test if the best wins?

 

[Phill1978]

And in the wet the Trophy posted a quicker lap time than the Ferrari F430

really ?

so when i get H&R`s on my cup and some rainsports il be beating a ferrari f430 if it was a gohst of me driving the ferrari i.e same driver.

for some reason i can belive this, rwd slick`s almost and 400+ bhp in the wet isnt the best for a supercar.

 

[182_blue]

;-)

 

[rory182]

The 182 did the Top Gear track faster than a Ferrari, the Vanquish etc etc too remember

 

[Munson]

Exactly. Therefore the test is turd. The quickest car with the best chassis and tyres won. What's the point of the test?

 

[EvoCarl]

I have some times from the latest best motoring vid that you guys might find interesting.

This edition was about hot hatches...no clio though.

Timed laps:

TEG 1'10"20
Golf GTI 6MT 1'12"90
Golf GTI DSG 1'12"54
MEG 1'13"41
Astra sport 2L turbo 1'14"60 (not vxr)
Fiesta ST150 1'13"41
147 GTA 1'11"00

During the actual race the meggy had a better driver I think and had a best of 1'12"37

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

jesus Swervin, you do talk some sh*te. It's blatantly obvious to me your argueing purely for thesake of it. You dislike Mk2's in general, which is fine. Whether this is because you are jealous or what I don't know, but it's making you (who comes across as a relatively intelligent guy) look like an idiot.

You say there is no point in the test because " the fastest car with the best chassis won". So what is the point of any test if the best wins?

Generally test involve cars that stand half a chance against each other. In this case, the others didn't. Ergo, what is the point?

A test is not about stating the bleeding obvious. Christ, the one time I praise the 182 Trophy and I still get grief.

 

[jonnyboy]

"trophy is fast around a track shocker"

Lets see who can still walk after a drive to france and back

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

You dislike Mk2's in general, which is fine.

Apart from the mk1 172 and the 172 Cup.

So what is the point of any test if the best wins?

Generally one doesn't know the outcome before one starts reading the test.

Surely up to a point, the chassis is tweaked and tuned based upon the tyres it's going to use? Why should they all be wearing the same boots?

I'd be intrigued, genuinely, to know what boots the others were shod with, since it's very common knowledge that the PE2 is one of the top all-weather tyres. Ergo it makes a fapping huge difference. Did you ever see their tyre test when they lapped a V6 Mondeo quicker on F1s than an M3 on it's Pilot Cups in the wet? I believe they declared that you were doing yourself a massive dis-service if you were an M3 owner and didn't get the F1s or P Zeros.

The only tests ever worth any note in Autocar are their tyre tests were cold hard measurable scientific facts are found.

 

[Big G]

The 182 did the Top Gear track faster than a Ferrari, the Vanquish etc etc too remember

I take it you're having a laugh...

 

[rory182]

nope i'm serious lol check the lap times!

 

[Lagerlout]

Generally test involve cars that stand half a chance against each other. In this case, the others didn't. Ergo, what is the point?

A test is not about stating the bleeding obvious. Christ, the one time I praise the 182 Trophy and I still get grief.

So a 200bhp Golf and a 240 bhp Astra don't stand a chance? I would imagine the bhp/tonne ratio of all the cars is very similar. And I didn't see it as a forgone conclusion that they would put the Trophy above the Golf either, as the motoring press seem to love that too.