Tuning up my Renault Megane with ClioSport parts

[victorhora]

Hello there,


I have Renault Megane II Saloon 2006 with the 2.0 16v F4R 770 (135ps) engine.


I would like to tune it a little bit for my own entertainment and maybe put it on a TrackDay for a little fun


Up until now, I have bought Eibach Springs, changed the brake fluid to DOT 5.1 and bought EBC brake pads. Along with that, I also have a K&N 57i High Performance Air Induction Kit and NKG Iridium BKR6EIX Sparks.


I have been discussing with some friends at brazilian Renault Club (forum.renaultclube.com) and they suggested me to "install" some Clio Sport 172 (ph2) or Clio Sport 182 parts that should be "plug'n play" for my car.


Up until now i've been thinking about:


* Renault Clio Sport Inlet/Intake Manifold - ~ £50.00 (USED)
* Renault Clio Sport Throttle Body - ~ £50.00 (USED)
* ARP rod bolts for Clio Sport (for "safety")
* De-cat pipe £cheap


For the Camshafts, i'm thinking about one of these:
* Renault Clio Sport Exhaust and Intake CamShafts - ~ £100.00 (USED)
* CatCams 428/421/436 Exhaust and Intake CamShafts - £619.00
* Engine Dynamics Performance Camshaft for Clio 172/182 Sport - £499.00
* PiperCams R172BP270 for Clio 172/182 Sport - £289.00


I'm also thinking about putting a custom made exhaust starting with the exhaust manifold and mufflers for everyday use.


For ECU remap i'm thinking about RSTuner or DASTEK Unichip or some other custom chip… Not sure about that yet… most people use Unichip here in Brazil, but it's costly (around £900!) and I'll also have to pay some shop for custom remapping the Unichip. So that may end up costing £1,000.00!


The good thing about RSTuner is that (in theory) Hank could tune it for me and it would cost around £300.00 - £400.00 including shipping to Brazil.


I'm expecting a performance gain of 20 to 40ps, something around 155 - 170ps. Does that seems reasonable?


The important thing is that this is a "everyday car", my wife tends to use it sometimes and I travel some hundreds of miles a couple of times a year. So I need a usable and reliable car. No turbocharger, just naturally aspirated engine with some reliable performance gain for fun


Any suggestions? Can someone confirm if those parts are really "plug'n play" for my engine or I would need to "adapt" most of these?


Thanks in advance!

 

[peanuthead]

I might be corrected on this but I dont think the RS tuner has a preset map for aftermarket cams. I know he can take a reading of your car once plugged in and then modify the map but I am pretty sure people get it live mapped on rollers over here.

 

[Westytce]

All right, let's see what this thing can do.

 

[victorhora]

I might be corrected on this but I dont think the RS tuner has a preset map for aftermarket cams. I know he can take a reading of your car once plugged in and then modify the map but I am pretty sure people get it live mapped on rollers over here.

Hummm... yeah... I think i'm going to try to speak with Hank to check on that...

What about the rest of the "tuning" I'm planning, any suggestions?

PS: Thanks for the info on the Rs Tuner!

 

[victorhora]

All right, let's see what this thing can do.

Sorry, didn't understand what you mean... You think these mods wouldn't work!?

 

[peanuthead]

Maybe try the inlets, although not sure if they fit, exhaust de cat ect and use the rs tuner to put the map suitable for standard cams. upgrading the cams on a 172 here would cost between 1000-1200 as you need a new cambelt etc. then a few hundread for a map.

so in your case that is likely to be closer 2000 if the places charge that much for a remap.

 

[aldo_87]

Sorry, didn't understand what you mean... You think these mods wouldn't work!?

Ignore him!

 

[len_beach]

Cheaper to ship a 1*2 lump over and fit that with better gains!

 

[Dan519]

Pistons. You will need to change to 172 pistons or you will have lower compression. the 172/182 cylinder head has a a fair amount different to the megane

have a read here
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?580145-whoops

it made 180 once I'd fitted the correct bottom end, ported the head, and made sure the correct 172 cams were used

 

[Martin_172]

Henk can map that for you with aftermarket cams after a few data logging runs

 

[victorhora]

Maybe try the inlets, although not sure if they fit, exhaust de cat ect and use the rs tuner to put the map suitable for standard cams. upgrading the cams on a 172 here would cost between 1000-1200 as you need a new cambelt etc. then a few hundread for a map.

so in your case that is likely to be closer 2000 if the places charge that much for a remap.

Maybe I should forget the cams and stick with the Intake Manifold, Throttle Body, ARP rod bolts, De-cat pipe and remap because it's cheaper and "safer"?

 

[victorhora]

Cheaper to ship a 1*2 lump over and fit that with better gains!

Sorry but, what's 1*2 lump? If it's a too large and heavy part, shipping cost and customs tax (65%) would be HUGE! If only brazilian customs would let me import a used car I would be more than happy to have a 182/200 ClioSport or a Megane 225 F1

 

[victorhora]

Pistons. You will need to change to 172 pistons or you will have lower compression. the 172/182 cylinder head has a a fair amount different to the megane

have a read here
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?580145-whoops

it made 180 once I'd fitted the correct bottom end, ported the head, and made sure the correct 172 cams were used

Hummm... that's some interesting info... I have checked your link and it seems that the car in that thread was Phase1 (non drive-by-wire). So it should be an "old" Megane/Scenic 2.0 F4R engine, right? Maybe my "newer" Megane 2006 F4R (drive-by-wire) engine pistons are the same as the Ph2 Sport Clio's?

You think I may have problems with lower compression by using 172/182 cams? What about CatCams, Engine Dynamics or PiperCams? You think I could have the same problems with those as they were "made" for the Clio's?

Other than that I should be fine with Clio Sport Ph2 Intake Manifold and Throttle Body, right?

Thanks a lot for the help!

 

[victorhora]

Henk can map that for you with aftermarket cams after a few data logging runs

Well, that's some good news. I'm trying to get in touch with FastChip.nl (e-mail) almost 15 days ago but no response on that yet...

Does anybody has Hank's e-mail?

Have just sent a message trough the website again, let's see if I can get some answer now...

In the meantime, I'm interested in a RsTuner unit, if anyone has one, I would be happy to buy

Cheers.

 

[Fastchip]

@Victor. Sorry our RSTuner does not support your car, it's VIN isn't listed on our product page.

 

[scotty2hotty81]

As said fit a 1*2 engine.

 

[victorhora]

@Victor. Sorry our RSTuner does not support your car, it's VIN isn't listed on our product page.

Actually this seems very strange... Because there's no difference in engine of a Renault Megane II LM0C, to a LM0J to a LM0S. Most of these codes just tells the chassis type (Hatchback, Saloon, Estate) and options. The 2.0 16v F4R engine remains exactly the same between those versions...

You can confirm that by checking Renault's manuals.

Could you please reconsider that?

Thank you.

 

[Dan519]

Engine isn't what matters, it's the ECU. There's a handful of different ECU's for the 172 alone, with a lot of differences in the way the data is organised. Not interchangeable and not as easy as you're suggesting. If it's not supported by Henk, then he doesn't have the info to know what type of ECU you have. He might have to start fron scratch with it for all you or he knows

 

[victorhora]

In the meantime, I found out some interesting info about F4R engine differences:

F4R 770/771 - 136bhp - *MINE*
F4R 730/732/736 - 172bhp - *CLIO SPORT 172 PH1/PH2*
F4R 738 - 180bhp - *CLIO SPORT 182 PH1/PH2*

Well, I have learned a few things from several forum users, specially MATT BLACK

* Engine compression ratio is different, F4R 770 is 9.8:1 and F4R 736 is 11:1.

* Its easier and cheaper to keep engine bottom end and theres not much power difference between the two. The only thing the F4R 736 (172 BHP) unit shares with the F4R 770 ( 136 BHP ) engine are the rods. The pistons and crank are different & so is the block. Im pretty sure the bottom end could cope with an extra 36 bhp that could be found through some mods / remap. If you wanna go higher / quicker be prepared to pull your wallet out. F4R 770

* A friend of a forum user used the OEM RS camshafts, a exhaust manifold w/o pre-catalyst (like RS OEM), a 60mm exhaust system and 200 cell catalyst, did remap and got as result dyno-tested 163 hp and 212 Nm out of his F4R-700 engine... OEM compression ratio and also the OEM intake manifold. I don´t know the 0...60 time, but accelartion was already amazing as the engine is installed in a Clio

* Every Scenic, Espace, Laguna or Megane that has come into MATT BLACKS garage with a blown F4R engine a few years ago has been fitted with a brand new F4R 732 engine from a clio 172. He used the bare engine only and fitted the standard inlet and exhaust manifolds back from the standard 2.0 16v units. The F4R blocks are interchangable on all Renaults. Needless to say the customers were amazed with there new engines and couldnt believe how well they ran - OK there not as quick as a 172 and he dont think the would make 172 bhp on a R/R but they werent so far off...


I also heard the *Crankshafts* are different between all the F4R engines as well... so as I heard about Crankshafts and Camshafts "depends" on each other timing for engine to function properly, fitting a ClioSport 172/182 *Camshaft* on my engine could blow it's bits, or just make it "worse"? Could this be "corrected"/tuned with a remap?


References:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?322735-Renault-Scenic-172-done-before&highlight=F4R
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?190951-scenic-2-0-clio-sport-engine-question
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?330459-Megane-Scenic-F4R-upgrades&highlight=f4r+770

 

[victorhora]

Engine isn't what matters, it's the ECU. There's a handful of different ECU's for the 172 alone, with a lot of differences in the way the data is organised. Not interchangeable and not as easy as you're suggesting. If it's not supported by Henk, then he doesn't have the info to know what type of ECU you have. He might have to start fron scratch with it for all you or he knows

I agree that the ECUs between a ClioSport will be very different from a Megane II F4R and I believe it could be several ECU types for a Clio 172/182... But I couldn't imagine much difference between a Saloon and a Hatchback Megane II what regards engine management...

But I'm a computer geek and I believe when you mean the ECU memory adresses/data could be at a different location even between minor different ECU types.

The bigger difference I can see between brazilian and european ECUs, as the engine is concerned is Petrol. Brazilian petrol has 25% Ethanol and I think this could have to be taked in account when remapping. Most Megane II parts (P/Ns) are shared with european Megane's and are imported from Renault's factory in France.

I have to say that I really hoped Henk could help me with that, as spending £300.00 for the *great* RSTuner with "Staged" ready to load maps used by lots of people and also the possibility of a custom map with data runs on my car seemed like a great deal when my other option is finding someone around here that will ask more than £1,000.00 for a DASTEK Unichip unit

 

[LiamR172]

buy a 172/182 engine and fit that?

 

[victorhora]

buy a 172/182 engine and fit that?

Sadly, Renault Brasil did not brought any RenaultSport since forever. So I can't find a RenaultSport engine here.

All we have here now is a facelifted Clio II (marketed as "New Clio"), Megane II 1.6 Estate, Dacia Duster and Dacia Sandero (Marketed as Renault).

The only "good car" Renault is selling on Brazil now is the 2.0 16v Fluence with CVT gearbox (engine and gearbox from Nissan Sentra)

My only option left is to import a RenaultSport car or an entire engine. But that's not really an option as import taxes will be more than 65% the price of the car.

Check this link to understand what I mean:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/08/11/brazils-ridiculous-80000-jeep-grand-cherokee/

That's why tuning it a little bit seems the only option left...

 

[Dan519]

Sounds like a Ren-Flash from K-tec might be an option for you for the remap

 

[LiamR172]

Considerer moving to the UK yet?

f**k paying those prices for a jeep