Ultimate weight reduction

[...]

I didn't think the OP was spending 14k on a clio?!? I didn't think he was spending much at all, I must have massively misread. If he is looking at spending that kind of money, then I'd definitely be spending it on a westie.

I wish I had 7k. Because then I'd have a Westie.

i didn't say he was , i was saying even if you did you would not be close .

if your that set on trackday driving then there is a reason 7 esq cars are the most used on track days acros the country ............ or as Sir Dave says , stick some sticky tyres on the clio and enjoy it as it is . chasing weight is a thankless task and actually not cheap in reality ........... plus you render the car with little value to anyone but yourself.

 

[McGherkin]

And then you buy one of those and discover all the ultimate bits you need for that and then next thing you know you don't have a cheap track car anymore


View attachment 107770


but it was fun developing building and driving past caterham owners who always felt superior (just best not to tell them you had spent as much as they had :banghead: )

Is it me or does your numberplate end in MCG? :clown:

I hate to think what was spent on our westie lol.

EDIT: You could spend 200k on a car and still not come close to a westie

 

[...]

Is it me or does your numberplate end in MCG? :clown:

I hate to think what was spent on our westie lol.

EDIT: You could spend 200k on a car and still not come close to a westie

Its Q 460 MEG .... and its been disclosed before what was spent

North of 35k

But it was f**king quick

 

[Budgie]

He might not fit in a Westie. He has admitted being a larger than average chap after all....

We weighed them.

They made the cut.

 

[rickyquicky]

The op spending 14k?

No mate. I've spent £800 on a ph1 that had just had dephaser and cambelt done.

Spent between £1,000-1,200 on top so far, that has got me buckets/coilovers/service items/seatbelt/cup alternator/vibratechnics mounts/polycarb side windows.

Not sure where 14k came from, or that I weigh 18 stone.

 

[imprezaworks]

Ah ok cool. Well good luck with your plans mate

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Don't do the windscreen. It's not worth it. Yes it will save you about 5kg but it will scratch with the wipers on, then it will get hazy and need replacing.

 

[...]

Don't do the windscreen. It's not worth it. Yes it will save you about 5kg but it will scratch with the wipers on, then it will get hazy and need replacing.

You repolish polycarb when it scratches

 

[piranhamatt]

I didn't check previous couple of pages but has anyone suggested only wear a long sleeve top and a helmet? CLothes weigh a lot

Here's my daily saxo (other car) when I took it to santa pod. There was a bucket seat fitted at the time though.. It snowed so there was no drag strip action

 

[mr bognor]

I had the Saxo in the pic for a bit but it was too harsh for me .

Alan

Terribly sorry, i normally stay in the 'Other Marques' section of the forum. In fact, next time you ask a question about your golf, i wont be so helpful. With regards to the weight loss, yes, you will gain additional speed & adjustability, but without the correct suspension setup, you will lose speed as the springs/dampers of your H&R's will have been developed with a standard weight in mind. I've done the stripped thing btw:

As it happens, Budgie helped me build it, along with Nick172cup and a few others.

On the flipside however, i did considerably more trackdays (10 i think) in my more standard, non-stripped Trophy and had equal to, if not more fun. I spent a lot of time on track, whilst others were stripping the paint behind that thing in the boot next to the other thing off to save 0.5kgs. Utter waste of time. My H&R's (when they replaced the Sachs) also worked incredibly well as the weight of the car (& distribution) wasnt that much different to standard.

So yeah, take the light hearted banter from those that have been there, done that & got the t-shirt over the past 10 years in clio's as perhaps some decent advice. We've all seen 1 billion 'track builds' on here, and rather amusingly, its the standard(ish) cars that not only get the most use on track, but rather amusingly, they're normally the ones lapping everything whilst being driven by experienced old farts that spend their money on tuition/track days rather than spaffy shiny things to save a millionth of a kg.

 

[George Welsh]

What brand is the roll bar above?

 

[Fletcher]

What brand is the roll bar above?

IIRC safety devices.

 

[Martin.]

Doesn't look like a Safely Devices. They bolt onto the rear wheel arch.

Could be a K-Tec one...

 

[Nick172Cup]

Isn't that a 'caged' one?

 

[George Welsh]

The rear mounting points are so wrong, it cant be SD.
The cage extend to the front

 

[Sir_Dave]

Isn't that a 'caged' one?

Yup, caged 'MSV' bolt in cage.

Come up 2nd hand occasionally for circa £400, or you can buy a copy from ktec for about £900.

 

[Fletcher]

The rear mounting points are so wrong, it cant be SD.
The cage extend to the front

Oh course. My bad.

 

[George Welsh]

A roll bar even with a diagonal is different thing to a roll cage.
The rear mounting points are still s**t though.

 

[Sir_Dave]

The rear mounting points are still s**t though.

It bolts into the seat belt mounting points. Not entirely sure why they are sh1t? Id imagine that as the cage was designed for MSV so members of the public could hoon around on their corporate events, id say it was probably quite well thought out...

 

[George Welsh]

The blue book is your friend..
The seatbelt rear mounting points will not be able to withstand the excessive loads if there is a roll or side impact.
Besides that, even if we assume that these in one way or another could be safe you would need to weld metal plates to the mounting holes.
The cheapest 6 point bolt in (Msa/Fia) approved roll cage with the additional plates underneath welded to the shell to spread the loads would be million times safer and would add the shell a significan amount of stifness to have a nice base for your suspension set up.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Yup, im well aware of all of that, but you cant just unbolt a welded in cage & return your car to standard in 20 mins though can you ... It did the job i wanted. If the car somehow ended up on its roof, id still have my head (no ducking with fixed buckets/harnesses lol).

Any further questions, ask Caged and/or MSV.

 

[George Welsh]

I dont have to make any questions to MSV lol.
If you feel safe using it, its fine by me.

 

[M4D M4X]

Haven't read the whole thread was bored of reading the pointless posts of taking a crap removing bulbs and engine.

I managed to remove 55kg just in unwanted metal and underseal from the car i won't lie it was a pain in the arse to remove the and taken me about a month or a little bit more just on the underseal but it's completely worth it.

Other things i've stripped are carbon canister/air-con/heater matrix/radiator/power steering/complete interior inc dash/glass/fuel tank/battery and a few other bits i've probably missed.
Most of the above i've replaced with lighter-weigh versions but still haven't had it weighed untill it's up and running.

 

[M4D M4X]

Sorry dude, as mentioned in above post haven't read the whole thread but have now amended the comment.

 

[George Welsh]

I would suggest you read once more

 

[...]

As Caged make FIA/MSA cages all the time to a very high standard , along with caterham chassis ,and the new titanium atom chassis they have just built, i would suggest that Phil@Caged knows more than a thing or to about designing, stress testing and building cages.

I know this having personally worked with him on a cage project for Westfield's when i got the first designs implemented and built.

Caged don't produce unsafe crap , the MSV cage would not have been designed to be a full weld in cage for their own reasons but certainly would have been perfectly safe, i am sure MSV were only 2 sure about the consequences of a public liability claim after an incident in one of their cars .

 

[George Welsh]

Fair points all that you raised and my intention was not to try and disrepute a company's work but I still wouldnt feel safe in one of those. I still consider the rear mounting system if not s**t as I said before not adequate for track use.

As I said if the driver feels safe its fine by me.

 

[Tony Hunter]

It's very heavy carrying it from the spectator area, over the bridge to the paddock at Mallory!
@Tony Hunter

Indeed Adam, thanks again for that, you did get to drive it though, not many have done that.


We did back to back testing at Mallory 2yrs ago, car on fumes to race fuel 45ltrs. 600th a sec a lap difference, and to be honest the car felt better with fuel than without.

Even Fred was shocked at how little difference the weight made. So I wouldn't get to caught up in it all tbh.

 

[Adam G]

Only posted it for the crack Tony.
Thanks for the drive though

Back OT

 

[...]

Indeed Adam, thanks again for that, you did get to drive it though, not many have done that.


We did back to back testing at Mallory 2yrs ago, car on fumes to race fuel 45ltrs. 600th a sec a lap difference, and to be honest the car felt better with fuel than without.

Even Fred was shocked at how little difference the weight made. So I wouldn't get to caught up in it all tbh.

Last year of me karting i strived to loose the 6kgs i was over the weight limit ... when total weights are 177kgs 6 sounds alot .... reality is 3% ..... didnt stop fastest laps and consistant top 5 finishes including wins .....

 

[underdog]

Indeed Adam, thanks again for that, you did get to drive it though, not many have done that.


We did back to back testing at Mallory 2yrs ago, car on fumes to race fuel 45ltrs. 600th a sec a lap difference, and to be honest the car felt better with fuel than without.

Even Fred was shocked at how little difference the weight made. So I wouldn't get to caught up in it all tbh.

so in theory you could have been 25 - 30 kg weight difference. maybe average joes like me and you wont notice but skilled drivers like the Btcc drivers would definately feel it and it would show in their lap times.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Maybe so, but then my car isn't set up to the ultimate for every circuit, a few minor tweeks is all I do.

A BTCC car is set up to the limit for every circuit, so yes any change would make a difference, hence ballast rules for wins.

Isn't the op an average Joe then? Just doing track days?

I do think some people get carried away with things.

 

[McGherkin]

We did back to back testing at Mallory 2yrs ago, car on fumes to race fuel 45ltrs. 600th a sec a lap difference, and to be honest the car felt better with fuel than without.

Even Fred was shocked at how little difference the weight made. So I wouldn't get to caught up in it all tbh.

Surely the natural difference between laps is more than 6 hundredths of a second anyway? Unless you're a proper robot!

Chain a few corners well and you'd probably get more of an advantage than the fuel level lol.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Surely the natural difference between laps is more than 6 hundredths of a second anyway? Unless you're a proper robot!

Chain a few corners well and you'd probably get more of an advantage than the fuel level lol.

Seeming I did 20 lap sessions, all within 2-300ths a sec a lap, to me that's fairly consistent. But I forgot you are a driving god.

 

[underdog]

Maybe so, but then my car isn't set up to the ultimate for every circuit, a few minor tweeks is all I do.

A BTCC car is set up to the limit for every circuit, so yes any change would make a difference, hence ballast rules for wins.

Isn't the op an average Joe then? Just doing track days?

I do think some people get carried away with things.

true its very easy to get carried away though if your passionate about your hobby. im very guilty of this. but i think if i carry 25kg less fuel and i try and find every last bit of weight saving in the car and that tots up to an added 25 then im 50kg lighter and even average me can feel that amount.

 

[SkidMarx]

I dont understand this forum

 

[McGherkin]

Seeming I did 20 lap sessions, all within 2-300ths a sec a lap, to me that's fairly consistent. But I forgot you are a driving god.

That's massively impressive if true, because they can't even do that in Formula 1.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Fair enough.

All I care about is winning races,which I seem to manage to do on a regular basis.
Not bad for an old bloke with a heavy car and no skills.

 

[Tony Hunter]

That's massively impressive if true, because they can't even do that in Formula 1.

Lol, so now I'm a liar as well, on a short circuit like Mallory it was fairly easy to do.

 

[...]

Fair enough.

All I care about is winning races,which I seem to manage to do on a regular basis.
Not bad for an old bloke with a heavy car and no skills.

I bet if you look at plato with and without balast on a given day the ultimate lap times with and without 45kgs of ballast isnt huge.
Fair play tony to bang out lap after lap within a few hundredths but you should be as you know .... consistency is whats needed..... after consistancy i look how close to the loggers predicted best ... should be within a tenth or so to know your on it .

Track days are a different ball game i couldnt drive on one like i race or would want to thats for sure