Unstable Handling

[daddycool]

my car is a bit unstable and wanders about on anything but the smoothest roads under high speed/ acceleration.

what's the likely culprit?
top mounts
front shocks
wishbone bushes
tracking
worn tyres

also it sometimes pulls when braking to a stop on these uneven roads

thanks, kris :clown:

 

[kevbev321]

Tracking most likely.

Loving the "I'll ask a question and then answer it myself..." :slap:

 

[daddycool]

multiple choice
only because everything else has been changed over the past 6 months!

 

[kevbev321]

Try having a look at the rear shocks too, you'd be surprised how much of an effect they actually have on a rough road.

 

[daddycool]

that's one of the new things
rear shocks
ball joints
track rods
track rod ends
steering rack bushes
arb bushes
most of the above needed doing as were visibly worn, i haven't done all that in pursuit of resolving this!

 

[Ritch]

Have you checked your tire ware on the front tires? Sounds like your tracking is towed out to me. If your tires are unevenly worn with more ware on the inside of the wheel its more than likely your towed out, easy fix just get the car tracked at a reputable garage. Job done.

 

[daddycool]

Seems to be wearing slightly more on the outside than the rest of the tyre. not to a great extent mind. the tracking does need doing as its pulling to the right ever so slightly since i fitted steering rack bushes last weekend. but it was handling like this before i replaced the bushes. but then the bushes were fubar'd. annoyed cause i had a hunter alignment done a month ago and then found i needed new steering rack bushes. ho hum.

 

[paulmcmillen]

One of my rear shocks was leaking, and after getting two new rear shocks the feel of the car was transformed, felt so much steadier at the rear. Check you don't have any leaks from the rear dampers.

 

[Ritch]

Ware on the outside of the tire is quite normal after all it’s this part of the tire that takes most of the load when cornering hard. Its always a good idea to track the car after replacing any bushes, track rods, ball joints etc etc.

Tracking is often over looked and often the answer to most problems involving odd handling. If after a tracking you're still having problems start digging deeper.

Paul is right with the rear shocks comment to, you'd be surprised in how much the rear shocks effect the handling if they're shot but I'd strongly recommend getting the tracking done before investing in new shocks unless they are obviously worn.

 

[imprezaworks]

Go down the replacement shocks, top mounts and tracking, i did and now its spot on.

Dan

 

[rory182]

Tie rods + alignment

 

[daddycool]

got tracking done, didn't change anything. it also bangs a bit when hitting bumps, sort of thing you get with worn track rod ends

 

[sideways danny]

balljoints first, check shocks, look for broken springs then re do alignment

 

[daddycool]

how do i check the front shocks? they're not leaking. springs are complete. ball joints are done.

even after having tracking done it still pulls to the right a bit. i'm going to get it double checked at another branch of national tyres tomorrow.

here's the list of things that have been done in the past few months:
rear shocks
ball joints
track rods
track rod ends
steering rack bushes
arb bushes
tracking

 

[imprezaworks]

Top mounts and front shocks would be my first choice

Dan

 

[daddycool]

Did u know your shocks were worn?

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[Goodj]

is there a fat bloke sat on the nearside wing?

 

[imprezaworks]

To be honest i didnt. But it felt like you describe yours to be. I replaced the springs with sportlines and after a period of time the handling got well, odd. Since replacing with coilovers and new top mounts theres been a huge difference.

Dan

 

[daddycool]

ok, been out there tonight. with the missus turning the steering wheel back and forth you can feel feint knocking when you grab the driver side tie rod. i disconnected the track rod end from the hub and the tie rod can almost just about hold itself horizontal. if i wiggle the tie rod up and down alot and raise the tie rod and let go it will pivot slowly downwards. i don't know if it's worn enough to be a problem. i've had worn out tie rods before and they were really worn out, no friction in the ball joint whatsoever. plus its only 6 months old, but it is a pattern part.

with the standard tie rod/ track rod test (hands at 9 and 3) there is no knocking.

while missus was moving the steering wheel i grabbed the universal joint and the rack itself but couldn't feel any play or knocking.

 

[daddycool]

dan, i've seen your post in the other unstable thread about sorting the issue with shocks and top mounts. it's on my agenda, but i'm very tempted to give it to a specialist to sort out.

 

[imprezaworks]

Okay mate let us know how you get on. Good luck.

Dan

 

[daddycool]

As the tie rod is 6 months old I'm going to try and get it changed under guarantee. Bought from gsf

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[daddycool]

one other thing i noticed yesterday with the front offside wheel off the ground was that when i turned the wheel right to full lock, you could hear a feint grinding sound, i think from the shock area, during the last couple of degrees of turning.

 

[daddycool]

i've just read that the rear subframe bolts should be tightened to 105nm and mine are currently 62nm. not sure HOW much different that would make as the rear subframe mounts push up into a dome shaped mould so doesn't look like they can move about, but, er, certainly something to rectify

 

[rory182]

Alignment place I use said never to use pattern tie rods as they're pish. So I still think it's the tie rod.

 

[daddycool]

funny u say that. i got a new tie rod from gsf a couple of days ago. haven't fitted it yet but i can move it around by hand without too much effort, and the other tie rods i've had have all been a fairly solid affair. it's going back today and i'm going to get a genuine one i think.

 

[daddycool]

genuine tie rod = £49! i'll try another pattern part = £16
the unstableness seems to have died out over the last couple of days, maybe since the tracking.
it's still got the problem of always tracking to the right, even through tracking is spot on.
going to swap my wheels over tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[imprezaworks]

I had a problem tracking mine when the coilovers were fitted. Track the steering wheel straight, drive off and it would go left ever so slightly. Third time lucky they turned the steering wheel slightly to the right(minimul) tracked it again, spot on.

dan

 

[daddycool]

when you say it went left, did it steer itself left when you let go of the wheel

 

[imprezaworks]

Enough to notice yeah

Dan

 

[Cookson]

I had a problem tracking mine when the coilovers were fitted. Track the steering wheel straight, drive off and it would go left ever so slightly. Third time lucky they turned the steering wheel slightly to the right(minimul) tracked it again, spot on.

dan

ackerman angle IIRC

 

[imprezaworks]

Youve lost me

Dan

 

[clio_luke]

i have had a simelar problem for about 18 months now. i have replaced front shocks, top mounts, ball joints, track rod ends and rear shocks. it still does it. tyres and alignment are fine too. i still have the problem. i give up to be honest.

 

[daddycool]

well, having swapped the front and rear tyres over this evening it appears the problem has gone! car drove completely differently, and in a good way, didn't pull left or right, except for the very very slight pull to the left you get as standard on some roads. some times it still felt a little harder to steer left, but only minutely, maybe because i'm looking for it though. braking approaching junctions with a light grip on the wheel it braked straight and true. it's been 7 years since i last owned a performance car (integra that i sold in 2003) which makes it 8 years since i've had this much fun and felt this confident throwing my car into the corners. still got a slight knock sometimes when hitting uneven bits in the road which i think is a dodgy tie rod (i've got a new one to go on) but apart from that it's looking rosy (touch wood). the real test will be on my monday morning run to work when i traverse the same roads that usually gives me problems. fronts are pzero neros, rears are T1r's. very tempted to get non-directional tyres now

two things i need help with though:

i noticed the left rear has noticeable wear on the outside shoulder, more so than the right rear. nothings bent (recent hunter alignment confirmed everything within limits). suggestions?

you know when you have a worn front joint and you can feel every imperfection through the steering wheel, i get this on the rear. are there bushes on the rear, and would these generally need replacing? rear bearings and shocks are newish.

thanks all :cheers:

 

[daddycool]

problem is back. damn me for writing that jovial post above

 

[imprezaworks]

Have you got coiloverqs?

Dan

 

[daddycool]

no, standard shocks and springs. some stuffs been done since my earlier posts in april. i had a new rack fitted which pretty much cured the problem but it still had a very slight pull to the right. it seemed to get a little worse over the course of a few days, i swapped the tyres front to back, was naff, so put them back to how they were and now the steerings just crap again.

 

[imprezaworks]

Might be an obvious question but have you had the tracking checked properly. Took mine to tdi north today and the rear needs setting up properly, so there ordering shims for it. Although I have got coilovers

Dan

 

[daddycool]

more times than i care to remember. proper hunter alignments that measure everything. only issue that stuck out was the camber on the left front was outside of its parameters (by 2/3rds of a degree, small enough to make next to no difference) but even if something WAS bent i would get a constant tracking issue, not one that tracks right one minute then tracks left or straight on. the more i think about it the more i think it's the top mounts. i replaced them on the weekend but i'm not convinced so i've ordered solid top mounts

 

[imprezaworks]

Hopefully that might cure it mate. I was down at tdi north this morning which is a well know Jap specialist and I was chatting to a couple of the lads who were getting work done and they never seem to suffer much problems like we do lol. There was an ep3 that just got mapped running around 250ish, figures we can only dream of ha ha. Maybe sell up and join the darkside, I've been tempted even more so now....

Danw