Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

V6vsCupvs172vsWillyvsValvervs 5GT

Ok everyone lets have a mature adult debate on this - Afterall this is what its all about and for the 1.2 16V and 1.4 16V and 1.6 16V boys - dont be shy - weve all been there so your opinion is valuable as the rest...............let the debate begin.................

Lets start with (remembering Im in Northern Ireland and have never met, raced or seen u guys motors) standard 172s /cups/willys / valavers then whos done what mods/planned mods, then BHJP/Torque figures/ quarter mile times/ 0-100/Brakes (compare them standard/ against moded then compare modded Willys to standard 172s/Cups - fecking hell Im confused now , b8ut come on letrs have a decent debate for once without any sl*gging or mines better - use the facts no assumptions......

Craagy - how long does it take to get to 100/135 in your Willy? Whats the standard/modded Torque figure for your motor also?
  Renault Laguna Coupe

Why bother with a debate? Just email your quarter mile times to"> and well see how it goes. The league table in the members section gives details of mods etc. Anything else is just a p*ssing contest, since we have no way of doing accurate timing even at track days. Talking about power / torque figures is pretty speculative too, as weve seen that rolling roads vary a lot.

It would be nice to get a really good quarter mile league going next season.

To quote your post - lets use the facts no assumptions. The only facts are the ones on that slip of paper that they give you after your run. Timing anything else like 0 - 100 or braking requires equipment and facilities (an airfield!!) that we dont have.

Ive modded my Cup by putting a Private Plate on.

Gives me a whole extra 5Bhp to your standard Cup....

Ill see you on the strip boy! ;)

I got another 1 BHP by putting clear side repeaters on, silver visions and a carbon tax disc holder! Any other planned mods sangy! I was actually only suggesting we had a proper mature debate about all the Hot Renault Hatches in the past 20 years - didnt mean it to become technical just opinions - but

curse those carbon holders :mad:

I would have one but cant afford to uprate my suspension which I would need to do with a mod of that magnitude!

sorry if im off track here but am still pis*sed from last night!

Mouth like Osamas big toe this morning...

Seriously though I think that a RELIABLE 5GTT would be the best out of that little lot.

Shame a reliable one is so hard to find!

P.S. Still have mouth like Gandis flip flop...

Of course the V6 racers and super 1600 clios or 2.0 rally cars would piss on everthing and then theres Captains 172 Turbo - Ive just

After long consideration and pondering I have come to the following conclusion:

Lets look at the facts:

R5 Turbo: Coke can 1.4 turbo charged engine with 130 odd BHP
R5 GT Turbo 2: Coke can with 1.4 turbo charged engine in the boot, rear wheel drive and tuneable to 400 odd BHP.
Clio 16v: Take a small car and put a big cars engine in it. WTF?
Clio Williams: Take a small car and put an even bigger cars engine in it. Double WTF??
Clio 172: Take a small car, add a big cars engine, tweak it a bit, and go racing pretty much what ever you like!
Clio 172 Cup: Take a small car, add a big cars engine, tweak it a bit, then remove un-necessary bits - ABS, Air-con etc to make it even lighter.
Clio V6: Small car + V6 engine + hardcore hallucigenics = WTF is that!?
Espace F1:
"What shall we do today lads? Im bored."
"I know, lets sneak down to the F1 boys garage, pinch an engine and plop it in my wifes people carrier."
"Sounds like fun - lets go!"

Need I say more????

Seriously though can we not discuss what we hate most and like the best about our motors without dishing out well urs is crap, but mines slightly better than crap... etc Ive done it, weve all done it - its time for the wind of change............"Take me.....where the ............on a glory night....." lol

I like the kick in i get at 4500 revs. I love that when I turn in tight and I think its just about to understeer into a kerb it just bites and whips round the corner - no squealing, nothing. I love being able to bother most 2 litre cars. I love comfy leather seats. I love that it requires exactly zero modifications to turn heads. I love the fact that everyone likes it - even my mum, and my nan loves it!! I love that it feels faster after a good wash.

I hate that everyone says is it a williams then? "NO!! DOES IT HAVE WILLIAMS WRITTEN ON THE SIDE?? DAMMIT!" I hate worrying about it all the time. I hate corroded alloys. I hate oil changes.

Hows that for a start?

Well Cup,

If you wait for the first re-issue of Performance GTI you will see a feature of almost every french hot hatch having a shoot out, this is taking place on friday and im representing the 16V!

They will be testing things like 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile and top speed runs. Should be a good laugh!


Would it not be a better test if all the cars were unmodded ie standard? A standard VTR against ur Valver isnt really going to be an accurate measure of which wins overall surely?

matbrown - cool wheres that taking place? Sounds like its gonna be a bloody good crack.

Cant wait for the next edition of EVO then. Wouldnt by any chance be taking place at Bedford would it?


Think thats a bit unfair for you to represent the 16v

Seeing as yours is a LITTLE higher specd.

Mmm should be interesting though, let me know the results.


What all these cars have in common is a that they were the pretty much the best hot hatches of all their respective eras. The Golf GTi badge may have continuity, but as for critical acclaim...?

Moreover, each take a different angle on each of the technology of their times - turbos, multivalve/twin cam, VVT and even torque!!

I think that because of this, and despite their common heritage, each of the Renault hot hatches is special in its own way. You cant really say one was "the best" as its down to taste. In my mind the Williams and 172 cross the boundary of torque and high rev power, while the 16v, V6 and 5 Turbo are each at other points in the spectrum - and appeal to different people.

If I had the requisite time and money, Id have one of each - but for the moment its a 16v for me!! Bring on the revs!!!:D

Being probably one of the longest 16v owners here (4half years) i still love my valver and still get excited on the open road. Overtaking is effortless and coming up against other cars such as Elises, BMWs, Jags, and other small hot hatches, the 16v just performs astonishingly well. Even against a williams the other day couldnt get past untill i hit 4th at 91mph! Since i lowered it the thing is on rails! Outdoes any othercar i know yet! Its like a very fast go-kart now!
  350z & 16v Maxi

I have loved the Clio 16v since I was about 13 when I first got into cars, that and a Escort Cosworth but I am not that bothered about a Escort Cosworth any more. There are far more cossies than Clio 16vs in my area. I prefer the engine in a willy but I didnt really want a blue car so went for the 16v. If I won the lottery I wouldnt sell my 16v, I would keep it in my huge garage next to my Aston Martin, McClaren F1, Willy and Cup. I would modify the valver and cup but keep the other 3 standard. I love everything about the valver except the over shadow of the Williams. When I bought my 16v I was over the moon as it had always been a dream of mine to own a Clio 16v, and a McClaren F1 but there is no chance of that happening. It is a very rare occurrence that I see another car on the road or the tele that I would prefer to have over my wee valver.
  BMW 320d Sport

If someone else was paying I would have the V6 just cos its expensive and has a lot of toys. But realistically out of that lot, the Willy would take pride of place for me. It will always be a classic hot hatch that no-one can mistake.

i like my willy.... ooops um ahem... sorry wrong site...... :oops:

seriously though i wouldnt even replace my valver with a willy, if anything id chance the engine cause of milage and keep tuning, besides they rev sooo much higher and waiting for that power kick is the fun bit!

and captain... willy over a 172 anyday! (and a cups just a willy wannabe)

Well, I may have bought a 1.2 16V Dynamique for the missus but I enjoy driving the little bugger tat much I have spent around 2k on mods so far!

Saying that, you can keep your 172s and Cups, give me a Williams any day, I can still remember them coming out and NOTHING catcing them. Nowadays what does the 172 get "is it as good as the CTR, CS, this that"

Willy was the boss of its age (like the r5 but better!

(and I dont even own one! ..................................yet ;)

Captain slarty,

yeah i have driven a 172 infact i drove one yesterday, and to be honest they are extremely nice cars although not hardcore/rough enough for me. It seems far to nice to drive too much of a girls car for me, although the cup may be a little better and would probably have one, may even order one next year. Also the handling of my 16v would out do a 172 on corners fairly easily.

and captain... willy over a 172 anyday! (and a cups just a willy wannabe)
Erm - did I miss something when I bought my cup - dont remember it looking anything like a Williams are drivin like a williams for that matter (it kinda looks more like a 172) and if Id wanted an late 80s early 90s sardine can I wouldve bought one for about £4500 K. U like the willy, so do I but I wanted a cup (buying a willy never came into the equation maybe when I was like 14, but hey things have moved on sice then in the Renault ranks - its still a classic car and always will be but the Willys had its glory days - get over it and accept the new podium winners...........

I wouldnt change my williams for a new style clio. i dont like all these new modern cars that are coming out, they are to "rounded" for me

take the subaru impreza for example... looked amazing in the 93-97 period... but the new shape looks like a bug with big eyes :cry:

I suppose it is down to personal preference really, some people like the new 172 clios, some dont.. its ur money! :)

Id have a willy if I my company didnt insist on my car being under 5 years old. And as far as the folks saying that the willy is past it. I think the results from yorks 1/4 mile day prove that it most certainly isnt past it. The Willy was a very special car and still is today.
  BMW 320d Sport

Youve said it all des. Plus if someone has still got a mint garaged Willy 1 with 10k on the clock in ten years time, Ill pay 5 to 10 grand for it. Would I pay that for a valver? No. And not a 172 or a cup either, although I definitely like both the newer Clios and think theyre great all round cars and bloody quick.