I think of the quattro name as being the proper setup like on the RS4 etc, rather than the haldex crap, I forget that audi like to mix and match the names though, lol
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VAG Gearbox Conversion
- Thread starter Michael Woodford MST
- Start date
I think of the quattro name as being the proper setup like on the RS4 etc, rather than the haldex crap, I forget that audi like to mix and match the names though, lol
I think in this instance Allen might have been on about the haldex crap
We're putting the quattro setup into my mates corrado (well he is mainly im just going to be helping out) so I think thats why I automatically think of the older proper setup when I hear the term.
Even the haldex is still better than nothing
Its a reactive system as far as I am aware, but I dont really know a lot about it.
Assuming its like other reactive systems that I do know a lot about though it will not be a fixed torque split, it will be mainly more or less 100% to the front and then only send power backwards when it detects a slip and the amount sent back will be related to that slip.
IME that works really well for straight line use but not so good for cornering as the fact it relies on front wheel slip to determine rear wheel power means that it gives a tendancy towards understeer.
Allan-
ClioSport Club Member
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTg0WDI3NA==/$(KGrHqFHJFYE-k4ZhNYmBPw0ki1E9w~~60_35.JPG
The setup of the TT. Looking at it, you may get problems on the back of the subframe so probably need to cut it and make a tunnel for the propshaft
The setup of the TT. Looking at it, you may get problems on the back of the subframe so probably need to cut it and make a tunnel for the propshaft
mikekean
ClioSport Club Member
996 C4S, 135i, E30x2
Haldex is definitely better than just fwd, with a race controller you can get upto a 50/50 split from what ive read and it also cuts in alot easier i.e: it will send power to the back wheels if you are aggressive on the throttle rather than in standard form when the front wheels start to slip. Even so my old S3 would drift roundabouts in the wet no problem, just had to get it understeering a bit then wait for the boost to kick in then the back end would come around. Simples
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Are you talking just straightline stuff though or proper driving when you say 'racing'
It works really well in a straightline like I mentioned earlier, understeer not a problem at pod. Lol.
I wasnt replying only to your post chip, but yes I mean to say that it can be very reliable.
It's drag racing, not drag 'racing'
R5GTT, 2L turbo
I should have kept this thread up to date, sorry guys.
02M 6 speed VW/Audi gearbox upgrade:
I reaslised there wasn't going to be enough interest to manufacture the kit in any kind of volume. Of the many folk that contacted me regarding carrying out a 6 speed conversion only one chap saw it through - Tom with his 172 cup. Thank you Tom ! I completed Toms car yesterday managing to re-use his uprated engine and gearbox mounts, the original battery tray and un-molested coolant hoses. Only the loom needed re-jigging to clear the gearbox nicely. I was able to install a VW clutch master cylinder to the 172's pedal box and install a reservoir in the o/s scuttle. The VW cable gear lever fits with only slight modification very nicely under the standard center console and with the gator re-installed there is no visable changes other than a new gear knob. Clutch and gear operation are as you would expect in a VW.
I took pictures of the conversion along the way which I'll try to upload at some point, but I am at least happy to confirm that the gearbox fits in the Clio 2 as well as I had hoped and as well as it does in the R5.
For those that are interested I can tell you that a drive in and drive out conversion including the cost of a billet steel 240mm flywheel, bellhousing adaptor & materials (customer to supply 02M gearbox, clutch, starter motor, 2x drive shafts, gear change mechanism and associated parts) will cost you in the order of £1800.
If you are struggling with the JC5 and are seriously contemplating the upgrade then feel free to get in touch (chris@efi-parts.co.uk) and I'll describe the ins and outs, pros and cons and so on. It's best not to PM though, I don't get on to forums as often as I'd like.
Cheers, Chris
02M 6 speed VW/Audi gearbox upgrade:
I reaslised there wasn't going to be enough interest to manufacture the kit in any kind of volume. Of the many folk that contacted me regarding carrying out a 6 speed conversion only one chap saw it through - Tom with his 172 cup. Thank you Tom ! I completed Toms car yesterday managing to re-use his uprated engine and gearbox mounts, the original battery tray and un-molested coolant hoses. Only the loom needed re-jigging to clear the gearbox nicely. I was able to install a VW clutch master cylinder to the 172's pedal box and install a reservoir in the o/s scuttle. The VW cable gear lever fits with only slight modification very nicely under the standard center console and with the gator re-installed there is no visable changes other than a new gear knob. Clutch and gear operation are as you would expect in a VW.
I took pictures of the conversion along the way which I'll try to upload at some point, but I am at least happy to confirm that the gearbox fits in the Clio 2 as well as I had hoped and as well as it does in the R5.
For those that are interested I can tell you that a drive in and drive out conversion including the cost of a billet steel 240mm flywheel, bellhousing adaptor & materials (customer to supply 02M gearbox, clutch, starter motor, 2x drive shafts, gear change mechanism and associated parts) will cost you in the order of £1800.
If you are struggling with the JC5 and are seriously contemplating the upgrade then feel free to get in touch (chris@efi-parts.co.uk) and I'll describe the ins and outs, pros and cons and so on. It's best not to PM though, I don't get on to forums as often as I'd like.
Cheers, Chris
R5GTT, 2L turbo
The customer will need to supply the bits I listed Danny. £1800 includes the custom flywheel, hardware, general materials and labour.
I should have made clear also that by "drive shafts" I mean stock VW shafts.
Cheers, Chris
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Hi Danny, thats it
Some pictures as promised. They're a bit poor, they were really only supposed to be reference for me in the future.
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/clio-02m-upgrade/
Cheers, Chris
Some pictures as promised. They're a bit poor, they were really only supposed to be reference for me in the future.
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/clio-02m-upgrade/
Cheers, Chris
Fantastic news that is all fitted to a car, looking forward to toms reviews
Would there be an option to buy the mount brackets on there own?
As that's probably what i would need looking at the pics
Would there be an option to buy the mount brackets on there own?
As that's probably what i would need looking at the pics
R5GTT, 2L turbo
I'd love to be able to, but I really didn't have the time to make jigs for replication, and I don't think there would have been enough demand to make those hours worthwhile. So sadly not sorry, just bellhousing adaptors and steel 240mm flywheels available presently. If you're handy with steel and you have enough nouse to align the motor and gearbox properly then they're not hard to make
Cheers, Chris
R5GTT, 2L turbo
They're joined Chip. Although the CV's do remove from each end making the shaft re-usable in the future.
By happy coincidence the Renault shaft slides fairly snug inside the VW one making the jointing a little easier. I have a jig I made from angle steel that I use to clamp the 2 parts concentric and aligned. I do shaft alterations like this for installation of certain Renault diffs, etc.
Thats handy if you can use a (often considered less than ideal) technique like sleeving but it work so elegantly due to the diameter of the standard shafts lending themselves so well to it.
TBH for 1800 quid actually fitted, thats a bit of a steal, the VAG bits arent dear so even including travel to drop car off and collect etc people are only looking at about 2500 all in, or 3K ish with a decent diff then?
Might even have to consider that one myself on my turbo phase 1 if I keep it longer term and get fed up throwing standard boxes at it like I no doubt will do!
TBH for 1800 quid actually fitted, thats a bit of a steal, the VAG bits arent dear so even including travel to drop car off and collect etc people are only looking at about 2500 all in, or 3K ish with a decent diff then?
Might even have to consider that one myself on my turbo phase 1 if I keep it longer term and get fed up throwing standard boxes at it like I no doubt will do!
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Thanks Chip, you got it. I'm a one man band with only moderate overheads so hopefully people will agree with you and won't think it's too expensive.
I even managed to keep the 172 Cup's speedo working by installing 8 lugs on one of the inner CV cups and using a hall sensor to replace Renaults gearbox speed sensor It's not needed in ABS models of course.
I even managed to keep the 172 Cup's speedo working by installing 8 lugs on one of the inner CV cups and using a hall sensor to replace Renaults gearbox speed sensor
It's not needed in ABS models of course.Nice touch on the speedo.
Its not as simple as ABS or non ABS models though I dont think, as the Phase 1 also uses the speed sender from the box to run the clocks, but has ABS as well.
So for a phase 1 your trick with the CV would be needed as well. and because you did it on the inner CV not the outer it would mean that it wouldnt interfere with the normal ABS operation either.
Very cool
Its not as simple as ABS or non ABS models though I dont think, as the Phase 1 also uses the speed sender from the box to run the clocks, but has ABS as well.
So for a phase 1 your trick with the CV would be needed as well. and because you did it on the inner CV not the outer it would mean that it wouldnt interfere with the normal ABS operation either.
Very cool
Evo 5 RS
Great work Scoff!
Considering what you're working with / to I think the price and requirements are more than reasonable
Considering what you're working with / to I think the price and requirements are more than reasonable
Renault like to keep us on our toes mate.
In fact even my reply doesnt give the whole story, as very early non cup Phase 2 172 also use the gearbox sender, my mrs has an 02 plate one and that is still on a box sender, I only know this cause when her speedo stopped working I assumed it would be the ABS sensors and then ending up having to replace the speedo drive instead.
R5GTT, 2L turbo
Well, thats Renault for you
The speedo thing was quite interesting as it goes. For 9 turns of the wheels you get 10 turns of the speed sender. Each turn of the speed sender generates 8 pulses (open collector type thing so requires some pull-up). That means 8.8 pulses or so per turn of the wheels. Obviously not possible to have 8.8 teeth but by using 8 teeth it brings the speedo back down to reality instead of showing 10% (or whatever) high like it does in standard form. I had to warn Tom that the speed is now correct, and to beware of speed cameras !!
The speedo thing was quite interesting as it goes. For 9 turns of the wheels you get 10 turns of the speed sender. Each turn of the speed sender generates 8 pulses (open collector type thing so requires some pull-up). That means 8.8 pulses or so per turn of the wheels. Obviously not possible to have 8.8 teeth but by using 8 teeth it brings the speedo back down to reality instead of showing 10% (or whatever) high like it does in standard form. I had to warn Tom that the speed is now correct, and to beware of speed cameras !!
Ha, yes thats a good way of looking at it.
From what I remember of what I saw of the rules when working for toyota, the law states that speedos must read between 100-110% of road speed.
Ie its legal for them to read upto 10% over but not legal for them to read under at all.
So manufacturers generally tend to aim at 105% of road speed, as that way it allows for tyre wear and production tolerances etc.
From what I remember of what I saw of the rules when working for toyota, the law states that speedos must read between 100-110% of road speed.
Ie its legal for them to read upto 10% over but not legal for them to read under at all.
So manufacturers generally tend to aim at 105% of road speed, as that way it allows for tyre wear and production tolerances etc.
Barely anything if your taking the whole car into consideration but it's a bit heavier than a jc5.
A lot more akward to carry aswel lol so it gives the impression of beating heavier than it is!
big boost cup
Well its been very wet at home so not driven it a lot yet but did manage a couple of hard launches. IMO it feels so much better than the standard Renault box. much more precise and "tight"
the ratios suit the car so well. with the added bonus of having the sixth gear. the install looks completely OEM. the quality of Chris's work is second to none cant fault it one bit. and im over the moon that i can finaly abuse the car how i want to without the worry of the box exploding and the clutch slipping. Highly recomend the conversion by Chris.
the ratios suit the car so well. with the added bonus of having the sixth gear. the install looks completely OEM. the quality of Chris's work is second to none cant fault it one bit. and im over the moon that i can finaly abuse the car how i want to without the worry of the box exploding and the clutch slipping. Highly recomend the conversion by Chris.
Fletcher
ClioSport Club Member
big boost cup
Hopefully you'll be able to keep up on Morestead to Corhampton now
I didnt say anything about going round corners lol suspension need fettling with then you wont catch me in you big gay bus :rasp:
