Viper induction kit

[Ritch_182]

HI All,
JUst trying to get some oppinion on the Pipercross Viper Induction kit, What do people think of this kit? Anyone found it to be any good?
After fitting mine I have found that my throttle response is very dull at motorway speed, the car also seems less responsive overall. I have routed the cold air feed next to the acoustic valve and removed the old cold air feed.

from what I can see the standard airbox does a better job?

Rich

 

[makavelli]

do a quick search for viper in the search box matey!!!

lots of threads and opinions about vipers!!!!

my opinion of mine was that it was poo

 

[Ritch_182]

Thanks,
I did a quick search and there were a few mentions, the general feeling is of poo. I was happy to take mine off on sunday and put the standard airbox back on. I am now battling with the retailer to accept the kit back because I do not believe it does what it claims.
Thank god for credit cards! Anyone managed to return one of these for a refund?
Rich

 

[kully]

i like it ................some ppl dont , its a preference thing

 

[ant]

cant say i honestly noticed any difference...............................................apart from the sound - holy beejeesus does it sound good now!

 

[nelson182]

For sound keep it, for performance, don't expect gains

 

[Steviant]

For sound keep it, for performance, don't expect gains

Nick you want one of these mate.

http://cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1935293#post1935293

 

[nelson182]

:lolup:
Parp!!

 

[16v_jon]

Its strange that alot of people are disatisfied with px vipers, i love the sound and mine pulls much better

 

[Andyman]

Might a leaned the car up fitting it hence the reason it feels sluggish

I loved my Viper and it did improve the car

 

[Neil G]

Never putone on my car but from what I have read on here the general consensus seems to be not to bother with them.

 

[ant]

worth it if you're going the remap route............probably.

 

[maahny]

Fitted a Simota kit to a car which had a PIpercross on it - car sounded much better and pulled harder.

The Pipercross is just way too small.

Other problems encountered are that the foam quickly breaks up and gets sucked into the engine.

Very poor effort.

M

 

[Nick_R182]

I quite like my viper. Sounds nice although i havnt noticed any increase or decrease in performance.

 

[maahny]

It's alot of money to pay for something that only makes more noise.

M

 

[clidge]

vipers are crap mate in my opinion had one on my cup and vts also tried it on my 172 and it was aweful the build quality if crap and as said above the filter is just so very small...my gen 2 is alot better than the above at alot less the price cheers

 

[maahny]

These kind of products really annoy me.

I've been into tuning cars for about 3 years now and we are so picky as to what we will and will not supply.

Compaines like Pipercross know very little about induction - it's just a load of marketing to sell and make money.

People automatically assume that just because Pipercross sell something it's going to make their cars more powerful.

First thing is that the Pipercross loses the venturi lip inside the origional airbox which is essential for directional airflow. Losing this reduces throttle response and loses you torque especially under part throttle loads. It's such a poor design.

Compaines like ITG and Simota actually test their products and retain the venturi lip.

ITG are by far the best induction company in the world. We use their foam filters on many BMW's with excellent results. Even their panel filters have shown gains on the dyno on some medium powered 16V engines. I can post the tests I had done if anyone wants to see them.

Then you have the likes of BMC with their patented Carbon Airbox which in all honesty is not that good either. People buy these solely for looks and that impressivley deep resonating noise they make.

I did a test last week on a BMW with a very high powered 2.7 Litre engine. I removed the BMC Carbon Airbox and fitted one of ITG's foam filters. The difference it made was quite impressive to throttle response and torque through the rev range. Less noise yes but the performance increase was noticeable.

I would say to people to do their research before parting with £250 of hard earned money for some half hearted effort of an induction kit.

M

 

[Lagerlout]

I have a Maxogen... once you've had a Maxogen you don't look back

 

[maahny]

Now that's money well spent.

I am working on a cheaper ITG induction system which uses the Maxogen filters.

We have had some excellent results on other cars using the same method.

Not quite as good as the Carbon Fibre Maxogen system but then no where near the price either. Still much better than a standard airbox or the likes of the mass market rip off merchants.

M

 

[peter182]

maxogen are bucks.got a bmc cda

 

[nelson182]

Now that's money well spent.

I am working on a cheaper ITG induction system which uses the Maxogen filters.

We have had some excellent results on other cars using the same method.

Not quite as good as the Carbon Fibre Maxogen system but then no where near the price either. Still much better than a standard airbox or the likes of the mass market rip off merchants.

M

Whats your opinion of K&N's products? Have you tested these out of interest? :approve:

 

[maahny]

Not tested them properly and certainly not looked at some of the newer stuff they are coming out with.

We did find something though with the cone filters. If they are subjected to any sort of heat soak you have a problem. The metal gauze surrounding the cotton is quite thick and has a very high specific heat capacity. This basically means once it gets hot it retains the heat and stays hot for quite some time. The gauze gets so hot that you cannot physically touch it. Heat radiates in all directions and you get increased air intake temperatures.
We also found them to distort very quickly.

Put in the same conditions the ITG foam Maxgen filters have a near zero specific heat capacity and just don't heat up. The thing that impressed me the most was that we had a car with a faulty FSE which caused a small engine fire - the ITG survived!

The kits may be quite good as they may have some excellent heat shielding and they may have a venturi lip but I've never really been interested in K&N.

I did alot of reading a few years back about the K&N material aswell and it is said that the actual filtration is poor. K&N filters let through quite a bit of dirt which is not a desribale thing!
Comparing the cone filter to the ITG maxogen filter shows that the ITG is quite a fair bit less resistant too.
The ITG uses a metal casing with an integrated trumpet whereas the K&N is plastic and the basic Cone filters have no trumpet at all - you have to physically make one.

I know some of the above stuff sounds a bit Anal but to me that is the way forward in making sure a good product is offered.

M

 

[ant]

i dont care.

it sounds great and there are no perfomance differences and it cost me £100 secondhand.

 

[maahny]

The thing is that most people do care and they don't just want something that makes a noise.

If you want just noise go buy a halfords drill with a fat drill bit and drill some holes into the airbox. That will make a very loud noise!

M

 

[Lagerlout]

Now that's money well spent.

I am working on a cheaper ITG induction system which uses the Maxogen filters.

We have had some excellent results on other cars using the same method.

Not quite as good as the Carbon Fibre Maxogen system but then no where near the price either. Still much better than a standard airbox or the likes of the mass market rip off merchants.

M

That would be perfect. I knew the Maxogen was the best product, but hard a hard time justifying if it was £100 better. Some 'middle ground' in terms of cost would be ideal for most people.

 

[ant]

If you want just noise go buy a halfords drill
M

nah. think i'll just sit here and listen to you.

 

[maahny]

What we normally make for the BMW's is a very well sealed heatshield. The basic frame of the heatshield is metal but it's coated with a heat resistant foam. We also make sure the whole thing sits flush with the bonnet.

Any breather pipes also end up inside the enclosure through a sealed hole.

The rest of the kit comprises of Samco hosing, a correctly sized ITG Maxogen foam filter and a cold air feed if required.

The kit normally comes in at about £200 for BMW, I can't see it being anymore for a Clio.

We will be working on thise in the very near future.

M

 

[Lagerlout]

Sounds excellent.

 

[Neil G]

Not tested them properly and certainly not looked at some of the newer stuff they are coming out with.

We did find something though with the cone filters. If they are subjected to any sort of heat soak you have a problem. The metal gauze surrounding the cotton is quite thick and has a very high specific heat capacity. This basically means once it gets hot it retains the heat and stays hot for quite some time. The gauze gets so hot that you cannot physically touch it. Heat radiates in all directions and you get increased air intake temperatures.
We also found them to distort very quickly.

Put in the same conditions the ITG foam Maxgen filters have a near zero specific heat capacity and just don't heat up. The thing that impressed me the most was that we had a car with a faulty FSE which caused a small engine fire - the ITG survived!

The kits may be quite good as they may have some excellent heat shielding and they may have a venturi lip but I've never really been interested in K&N.

I did alot of reading a few years back about the K&N material aswell and it is said that the actual filtration is poor. K&N filters let through quite a bit of dirt which is not a desribale thing!
Comparing the cone filter to the ITG maxogen filter shows that the ITG is quite a fair bit less resistant too.
The ITG uses a metal casing with an integrated trumpet whereas the K&N is plastic and the basic Cone filters have no trumpet at all - you have to physically make one.

I know some of the above stuff sounds a bit Anal but to me that is the way forward in making sure a good product is offered.

M

Agree on the metal gauze problem...even 4-5 years ago when I had my old Renault 19 16v it was a well known issue and I ended up taking mine off for this very reason.

There is a lot of 'flannel' going round and marketing BS regarding induction kits...it seems so, so easy for companies to make this stuff and sell it on regardless of testing etc.

 

[Andyman]

A Maxogen might look like a lot of money but its proven to give good gains, is allegedly the best IK on the market, plus if you were to sell it you'd still get more than 50% of your money back because their so sought after !!

I loved my Viper but it tore after me rushing washing it so a Maxogen was the only choice. Ive spent s**t loads modding the engine. Why would i want to ruin it by restricting all the gains by putting a shitty IK on!