Water ingress (footwell)

[Isambard]

Hi all
I have water somehow getting into my driver's footwell on my Ph1 172.
I have been researching and have so far tried the below without success:
- Check scuttle drains
- Clean out the area behind the inner wheel arch
- Make sure the sill drains are clear
Since doing the above i have dried out my carpet underlay, but the wetness has come back.
Is there anywhere else i can check?
I looked in the scuttle again today with the intention of removing the heater box, and checking any pipes connected to it, but i can't see where to start on removing it
Thanks in advance!

 

[Ads29]

Have you taken up the carpets too see if there's any signs inside where the leak is coming from?

Is your car normally sat level or on a slope?

 

[Ander3670]

Had this a few weeks bk turned out there was a drain right in the middle of the scuttle behind an upright panel.....filled with silt so all the rain from the roof and windscreen was pouring in

 

[Isambard]

It's normally sat level-I read up on the water coming in the back and running down but im sure it's not that ;-)
I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from when i had the carpet up-problem is i can only pull up that corner without removing the seats, so i can only do it at the weekend while im not using it!
@Ander3670, is the drain you are referring to the one which drains through a tube into the engine bay? I have definitely found a drain in the middle of the scuttle which is draining ok

 

[Ads29]

The heater box is a pain to remove (at least it is on a ph2) as most of the dash needs to come out, might be worth lifting the rear as its easier to get loose than the front just to make sure nothings running from the back.

Assuming its not running forward then check things like door seals are on properly and intact, aerial is sealed in ok (although if its this then you'd see wetness/staining on headlining)

How bad is the leak? Is it just a damp footwell or properly wet?

 

[Isambard]

Do you mean lift the rear carpets to check? I'll do that thanks
It's kinda hard to say how bad it is... before i dried out the sponge, if you pressed down with your toe then you could see water. Now it feels wet but only if you press down if that makes sense? And this is two (very wet) weeks since i dried it out.

 

[Ads29]

I do indeed, as it's only 5 minutes to check, at least then you can rule that out, I've always tried to eliminate as much as I can that's easy to check before ripping half the interior out.

It's probably not leaking from the rear but it's worth checking to be sure

 

[Isambard]

Bit of an update here... i've checked the rear over Christmas and that's not where the water is coming from.
I also got help from someone standing over the car with a hose while i sat inside, but couldn't see any water coming in unfortunately!
I've been doing more reading up and have found a few more things to try, but i was wondering if someone could clarify the following:

-If the water was coming in through the sills, is there a rubber grommet on the interior which i can use to check? I read something about this but it wasn't completely clear
-Should my scuttle cover be forming a seal with the windscreen? I didn't think so but I read on another forum where someone had helped matters by sealing the scuttle covers with gaffer tape!
-Windscreen seal; the top corner bit of rubber on my windscreen is a bit trashed, but it's the one on the wrong side of the car! Is there any chance that this could be the culprit?

 

[VR46-G@Z]

Hi Isambard, is it coming in on your door sill maybe? Mine was leaking about 3 inches in from the front of my passenger door footwell sill....the only way I could tell was it washed a clean line on the dirty door sill, otherwise I would have been stumped as to where it was coming in...I'm still yet to fully resolve the issue, I might replace all the seals on roof, door and windscreen, but it shows that the boot and scuttle aren't the only causes....

 

[Isambard]

Hi, this is really encouraging to hear! Did you have to remove any carpets or trim before you spotted this, or could you see it anyway?

 

[VR46-G@Z]

I could only tell because my sill was dirty and I spotted a clean line from a constant flow .... If you stick a couple of sheets of kitchen roll along the sill then just look if they get wet I guess!

 

[Isambard]

I'm going to have a good look at this at the weekend, along with everything else, but there's something i've read a few times which is really confusing me-although it will sound like a dumb question!

Where is the air-con drain pipe? Can anyone confirm that this is definitely not the same pipe as the middle drain hole in the scuttle, as people seem to describe them being in a similar sort of place! I have found the rubber tube that comes out in the middle of the bulk-head, and i believe this is the one for the middle scuttle drain?

Thanks in advance

 

[obcuz]

"I have found the rubber tube that comes out in the middle of the bulk-head,"
I think this can become unseated, so worth checking that it is firmly in place in the middle scuttle drain hole, you will need the wipers off and scuttle plastics off to check.
You really need to get the carpets and underlay out to check properly, the underlay sponge will never dry out in situ anyway, and it does require front seats unfastening, a hose pipe into the scuttle and see where it comes out- scuttle could well be draining but to where?
Lets it hope it stops raining one day.

 

[Alex P1]

Bit random but my stripped PH1 used to get a fair bit of water in through the grommets underneath the car that cover up the bolts to get your seats out, may be worth a check.

 

[Isambard]

Alex-thank you I will check this if the car is in the air at the weekend ;-)
Obcuz-i think you could be right-i plan to give it a good investigate again-i have checked it before but not thoroughly enough i reckon!

 

[Leonardo]

I had a leak too in my 182 (I had half an inch of water in the driver footwell) and I just pulled the carpet up and took the spongy underlay out about an hour ago. The sponge underlay was wet through and heavy with water but you can actually at least take that out (in mine at least) without removing the seats by just pulling the carpet back .

I'm leaving the carpet in as I think it has a fairly good chance of drying out now as it's only thin (but there was almost no chance with that thick spongy wet underlay under), but we'll see.

Edit: just realised you were talking about 172's so ignore me.

 

[Isambard]

Wouldn't the cars be the same for the purpose of finding leaks??
I have also taken out my foam to dry, but until the problem is solved, it won't be going back in!

 

[Karlos182]

How did you guys remove the foam underlay in the front foot wells without damaging it? I started to remove mine as it was sodden, but it goes all the way under the centre console and appears to be one piece for the whole front of the car. I was thinking about cutting it out (the wet bit) and just putting it back in when it's dry. It's not like anyone will notice and I can't see it making a difference in the long term.

 

[Isambard]

Hi Karlos
I started cutting mine with a stanley knife, but gave up and just ripped it bit by bit with my hands-like you say, it makes getting it out much quicker when its wet, and there's no noticeable difference when its back in the car

 

[Leonardo]

Karlos mine is a 182 too and the foam on mine didn't go under the centre console (only the carpet did), well maybe only tucked under a centimetre - I literally pulled the carpet back as much as I could (thought about cutting the carpet at first but didn't) and carefully pulled the sodden foam out from underneath. So if it is like mine you don't need to cut the foam.

The foam did rip a bit as it was old, had absorbed a lot of water and was heavy. I took it inside and it took about 3 days to dry out but you can't see the rip with the carpet back in. If the rip was so bad that I couldn't get it aligned right (it provides shape by the centre console so the carpets fits right and under the footrest) then I would have just repaired it with duck tape but I didn't have to.

 

[obcuz]

If you lift up the console a bit it should come out - there is a bit at the front that may need cutting by the heater, you do need to take the seats out or at least unfasten them.
Here's mine drying out, it took three days in full summer sun.

 

[Karlos182]

Lots of helpful tips there - thanks for those. Tomorrow's job looks like foam removal then. I just hope I don't need to take the seat out. A good squeeze and a few hours in front of the dehumidifier should do the trick. I've also noticed a lot of water held in the foam bit higher up in the footwell on the bulkhead/behind the dash (mine has a brown top coating to it). I'm not even going to try and remove that!

 

[Leonardo]

You don't need to take the seats out

Lots of helpful tips there - thanks for those. Tomorrow's job looks like foam removal then. I just hope I don't need to take the seat out. A good squeeze and a few hours in front of the dehumidifier should do the trick. I've also noticed a lot of water held in the foam bit higher up in the footwell on the bulkhead/behind the dash (mine has a brown top coating to it). I'm not even going to try and remove that!

If yours is a 182 then you don't need to take the seats out to remove the foam unless you want to remove the carpet also- I didn't. The foam part ends before the seats.
Once it was out I left mine in my shower cubicle for a day or 2 leaving it more or less upright to let the water drain out and then moved it to by the radiator for maybe another day or 2 to dry it out completely. The carpet will more or less dry out in that time if you use some sponges or something as they are only thin.

 

[VR46-G@Z]

If the bulkhead is wet it's probably the scuttle drains causing your issue.

 

[Leonardo]

I think in my case it was the rubber door/roof seals at the top of the door not being positioned correctly, but I'll wait and see. I did pour a couple of kettles of water over the windscreen and it all seemed to drain out OK so I have (almost)ruled out the scuttle drains

 

[Karlos182]

I've had water in the boot and the rear bench, so changed the seals by the lights. Still had water there after that, so changed the aerial base. Now the passenger footwell is drenched so it must be the scuttle drains. Passenger one comes out in the top of the wheel arch and pots out quite rapidly. Centre drain still had water in it. I found the rubber pipe but pulled it completely off and can't get in to get it back on. I'm hoping it'll be ok without putting it back on.

 

[Karlos182]

Update: the car has been into Rentech for its MOT. I got Mike to look for the leak whilst it was there. Turns out it's the windscreen seal somewhere on the left hand side. Not sure if I can get it resealed via the windscreen cover on the insurance yet.

 

[Isambard]

Woah... loads of replies in the thread without me getting an email notification!
I tried a few fixes two and a half weeks ago and (fingers crossed) think i might have fixed it.
What i believe was causing was that the rubber strip along the bottom of the windscreen (which sits tight against the scuttle cover) had been mostly scraped off by a previous owner, meaning that water dripped in all over the place in the scuttle, rather than using the flow designed by the cover.
I taped the scuttle cover to the windscreen (yes, duct tape!) as a temporary fix, and seem to have stayed dry since.
Could this be similar to your issue Carlos? If you can't get it sorted through your insurance, you could try a neat fix with black silicone sealant maybe? Should be possible to do a nice straight line that would hardly be noticable

 

[Karlos182]

I'm led to believe that it's the sealant that bonds the screen to the car that has failed. It's booked in to have the screen removed and resealed next month. It's a bit more than my screen excess but hopefully they should be able to sort it.

 

[Isambard]

Soo... with all the rain recently my footwell leak has come back! I checked the scuttle drains and they are definitely clear! I have seen a few threads talking about 'resealing the heating duct' (within the scuttle panel), but haven't really got a clue what this is, or where it is.
Does anyone have a photo or any directions as i don't really know my way around the heating system.
I have my front carpet out now and when it rains i can see water trickling in from behind the black squishy stuff behind the pedals.