What did I do to my tyres?

[Linsen]

Hi everybody!

After my first stint on a race track today, I noticed that my tyres did not really look too good. The tread looks, erm, not very healthy (see picture, it looks and feels actually worse in reality). This is the front left tyre, which is the one that gets used most on that track. It had probably around 150 to 200 miles on it. Only some of those driven on the track, mostly around town and Autobahn driving. The front right doesn't look nearly as bad, but the large long tread blocks also have a sort of zigzag shape. That one had around 1800 miles on it before I used it on the track for the first time. This occurs only on the outside half of the tread, on the inside the tread blocks are more or less level and plane. Rears are just fine. Is this normal? Am I overusing my tyres? Is there something wrong with them?

Btw, these are Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3s, in case you couldn't tell. They're the German made ones.

P.S.: On the front left tyre it's also obvious that I'm driving on large portions of the side wall aparantly. I'll try and upload a picture of the side wall tomorrow.

 

[homer simpson]

that's just normal wear and tear after a track day that's why i have two sets of tyres one for track and one for the road

 

[Linsen]

That's normal? No way. I haven't seen anything like that on anybody elses car. Maybe I need to take a better picture... This can't be normal.

 

[Pep]

Mine get worse than that from just roundabouts over here too fast mate. Well, the front left does anyways.

As said above, just have seperate wheels, some for road some for track.

 

[Linsen]

Hm. Very strange. I thought the Goodyears were rather good UHP tyres. I guess not, then. At least not for track use.

I have been thinking about getting a second set for track use. What would you guys recommend then? I hear the Hankook RS2s are pretty good. Should I get 15" rather than 16" wheels? The RS2s are available in 195/50 R15 and 205/45 R16 (which I can't drive on the road without getting them TÜVed, though). 15" would be cheaper, of course, but are they better for track days? Also, Hankook recommends 6" wide rims for the 195/50...

 

[Clgale88]

iv just put 2 new michelins on my car on the front and takin it round castle combe in april maybe i should swap them to the rears so they dont get fuked

 

[homer simpson]

That's normal? No way. I haven't seen anything like that on anybody elses car. Maybe I need to take a better picture... This can't be normal.

it 100% normal my brother has done the same damage to his ones and the michelin pilot exalto pe2 i have seen from one track day the hole side wall warn out to the point where the michelin man was completely missing .

my self personally i run toyo r888 size 205 45 r15 of track use .

 

[homer simpson]

you may consider getting your camber set to -2 degrees of camber instead of the -1 degrees of camber that is your stranded camber setup the extra camber will help with the wear on your side walls .

 

[Linsen]

I always thought camber was not adjustable on the Clio? But if it is, I'll surely get that sorted when I have the pro-lines fitted. It'll need alignment anyway then.

 

[Hazza]

that's just normal wear and tear after a track day that's why i have two sets of tyres one for track and one for the road

Yeah that is the logical thing to do!

 

[Steve]

Toyo R888's here also.

195/50/15's

Looks like your Goodyears melted!

 

[Cue]

looks like you didn't reduce the tyre pressure. Overheating from what it looks like.

 

[Linsen]

I always thought overheating was more likely to occur when tyre pressure is too low. I had the pressure set to 32psi cold on that day. Not sure what it went up to, but it was at over 40 a few minutes after the stint. Is that too high?

Edit: Wouldn't too low tyre pressure increase the side wall flex and therefore make the wear on the side wall even worse?

 

[Cue]

you'll get sidewall wear regardless, if you're gunning it on track you'll find tyres pressures going up around 20 psi. Higher pressure = higher temp.

the tyres are meant to run at sub 45 psi iirc, reducing the psi would have taken them to around say 22 psi when cold but optimal when warm.

This is why F1 et al have tyre warmers - the tyres aren't up to the correct pressure. It's not just a grip thing ( their ride hight is too low when cold).

 

[Clgale88]

so what pressure should you run when on a track day and would it be best to put my new micelin tyres on the back so i dont f**k them up already as iv just brought them

 

[tom_dot_COM]

you may consider getting your camber set to -2 degrees of camber instead of the -1 degrees of camber that is your stranded camber setup the extra camber will help with the wear on your side walls .

can someone just confirm that as standard the clio runs 1 deg on the front?

as I have a camber kit and soon will be getting all the allignment done. I assumed the camber would be 0deg standard so was going togo for neg1, but if its neg1 standard then ill probs goto neg2 when the allignment is done

 

[Clgale88]

iv been told its 0 for standard iv lowered my car 40mm and aint sure what i should do with the camber /tracking

 

[Cue]

mine was neg 1.0. don't know if this just the trophy or other rs models also.

the toe was 0.0 - completely neutral.

you'll need aftermarket camber bolts to hit 2 degrees of negative camber.

 

[Cue]

so what pressure should you run when on a track day and would it be best to put my new micelin tyres on the back so i dont f**k them up already as iv just brought them

get the tyres up to temp, then lower them back to around the 30-33 psi mark. go for a 5 lap run and see if they increase further, if they do reduce them again.

remember to pump them up again at the end for the drive home.

 

[Clgale88]

So how would i get them upto temp before i start the track day wat pressure should i start of at do you think it will be best to put my old tyres on the front and the michelins on the rear so i dont f**k them

 

[Cue]

get them up to temp on track - just don't go meantal for the first few laps, come back into the pits and check them...

 

[Clgale88]

ok so put them on 32psi then go out on track then check the temp again put them back down to 32psi then go back out. will the rear tyres get worn much

 

[Clgale88]

its not really a track day im doing im just going round castle combe its the performance action day and just having 2 gos round so not sure if my tyres will wear that much

 

[Cue]

for two laps you'll be fine.

 

[JamesS]

Worth having a look at http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3610555 as a lot of the same points were covered, and a lot of fact and fiction separated.

 

[Clgale88]

it prob be about 6 laps all together

 

[Cue]

similar length to what i did at FCS last year - i couldn't be bothered changing the wheels so ran normal road tyres. Just don't give it the full beans.

 

[Clgale88]

yeah ok mate but im guna put my new michelins on the back so i dont ruin them as i want them to last so ill put my crappy rear one son the front

 

[Henry]

wear like that's going to have been affected by lots of things - eg. the tyre (are Goodyears up to the abuse? some good road tyres just aren't), the pressures, the style with which the car's been driven (power-on understeer=bad!), the harshness of the track surface (some are much harder on tyres than others), etc.
also - don't use new tyres - the tread blocks are obviously taller on a new tyre and you get much more tread squirm and can even rip the tread blocks off

 

[Linsen]

Thx for your help guys. I suppose it's in fact mainly due to the tyres and my driving. I was driving rather hard and not very disciplined yesterday and did indeed have some rather high slip angles coming out of some of the turns. Also on the german Touristenfahrerforum quite a few people said the Goodyears are not good for track use.

So, what would you people recommend for track day wheels? Size, tyre width etc. 15" to keep the cost down or are 16" worth the extra? Rather 195s or 205s? 205s probably, because of more grip? I'm currently thinking 205/50 ZR15 would be the best bet, but I'm open for recommendations.

 

[Cue]

you wont need ZR's unless you're planning on driving off a cliff and hoping the land it on the wheels lol. No way are you hitting 150mph+, the clio would need around another 50-70 bhp to hit 150+

205/50 or 195/50's - doesn't make a whole lot of difference to be honest. 55's on 15's give a better rolling radius than 50's though.

 

[MarkCup]

Hi everybody!

After my first stint on a race track today, I noticed that my tyres did not really look too good. The tread looks, erm, not very healthy (see picture, it looks and feels actually worse in reality). This is the front left tyre, which is the one that gets used most on that track. It had probably around 150 to 200 miles on it. Only some of those driven on the track, mostly around town and Autobahn driving. The front right doesn't look nearly as bad, but the large long tread blocks also have a sort of zigzag shape. That one had around 1800 miles on it before I used it on the track for the first time. This occurs only on the outside half of the tread, on the inside the tread blocks are more or less level and plane. Rears are just fine. Is this normal? Am I overusing my tyres? Is there something wrong with them?

Btw, these are Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3s, in case you couldn't tell. They're the German made ones.

P.S.: On the front left tyre it's also obvious that I'm driving on large portions of the side wall aparantly. I'll try and upload a picture of the side wall tomorrow.

You're talking about the 'lip' that's formed on the edge of the treadblocks giving it a slightly higher point?

I've experienced that on many of my track and road tyres when used on track.

Spoke to some tyre sprecialist at the Festival of Speed last year and he said it was nothing to worry about. He implied it was because they were being used well, and it's the surface of the tyre 'rolling-up' to the edge of the treadblock where it stays.

Over-driving wouldn't show this build up as the greater slip-angle would rip this build up off as a marble.

Looks like you're exploring your slip-angle without going beyond it and causing damage to me.

 

[Linsen]

you wont need ZR's unless you're planning on driving off a cliff and hoping the land it on the wheels lol. No way are you hitting 150mph+, the clio would need around another 50-70 bhp to hit 150+

lol, you're right of course. I guess I had the Hankook R-S2 in mind when writing this. They just are ZR's

205/50 or 195/50's - doesn't make a whole lot of difference to be honest. 55's on 15's give a better rolling radius than 50's though.

Bigger is better? (no pun intended) With 195/50-15 I get a rolling radius that's 1% smaller than my current 195/45-16s. Whereas with 195/55-15 I'd be getting 2.3% more and 205/55-15 would be 4.2% more. 205/50-15 would be 0.7% larger than the current setup. The advantage of 195/50-15 would be that I can drive those without going to the TÜV as that dimension is approved of in the papers.

You're talking about the 'lip' that's formed on the edge of the treadblocks giving it a slightly higher point?

I've experienced that on many of my track and road tyres when used on track.

Spoke to some tyre sprecialist at the Festival of Speed last year and he said it was nothing to worry about. He implied it was because they were being used well, and it's the surface of the tyre 'rolling-up' to the edge of the treadblock where it stays.

Over-driving wouldn't show this build up as the greater slip-angle would rip this build up off as a marble.

Looks like you're exploring your slip-angle without going beyond it and causing damage to me.

As much as I like to hear that , I'm not convinced that this is really the case. On the picture it doesn't really look as bad as in reality. But who knows, maybe you're right. I'll have a closer look at them and maybe try to take a better picture.