wheel alignment & measurements (pic)

[siroldvolks]

Hi all,

Ok went to have my wheel alighment done YET AGAIN and it was way out, AGAIN - to try and sort out my bloody steering issues. Problem is I have been to different garages now, I dont know whos right or wrong. Now it feels even worse than before.

ANyways, I got a print out of all the measurements (as below), and oticed the difference with the castor angles on left and right, and also the camber. Is this bad? I dont know if this is way out, or hardly anything at all. Info please! Anyone any idea as to what these measurements should be?

http://www.siroldvolks.dsl.pipex.com/myphotos/steering/alignment.jpg

 

[Dan 172 Sport]

Mines lowered on Eibach Pro sport, however, here are the reults I got for the wheel alignment this week.

No castor results - sorry.

Camber:

Left = -0.55 degrees

Right = -0.35 degrees

0.2 degrees diff

Toe:

Left = -0.05 degrees

Right = -0.06 degrees

Hope it helps...

I thought my car felt abnormal and sometimes twitchy, I also concluded that if these results were real bad, I would have been informed by the garage??

Would camber adjusting bolts help our needs?

I would also like to hear if these angles should be closer to each other.

 

[siroldvolks]

good to be able to compair. Would be nice to see the camber results before fitting the eibachs, that way we can tell what difference the drop does make to camber.

I was looking at getting the same springs as yourself to improve handling, cuz im so fed up with how crap mine is!

Not sure if a normal tyre place can tell whether is good or bad to have differences with camber or castor. Dont know if they have any specific measurements to go on, on what it "should" be (unlike toe) - the readings are there for info(?)

I see im runing postive castor, which is bad right? Hopefully someone has info on what the measurements should be from factory...

 

[siroldvolks]

Quote: Originally posted by siroldvolks on 20 March 2004


good to be able to compair. Would be nice to see the camber results before fitting the eibachs, that way we can tell what difference the drop does make to camber.

I was looking at getting the same springs as yourself to improve handling, cuz im so fed up with how crap mine is!

Not sure if a normal tyre place can tell whether is good or bad to have differences with camber or castor. Dont know if they have any specific measurements to go on, on what it "should" be (unlike toe) - the readings are there for info(?)

I see im runing postive castor, which is bad right? Hopefully someone has info on what the measurements should be from factory...

Meant to say running more positive caster on one side, which is bad? SHouldnt these figures be roughly equal? questions questions

 

[JAY172]

the o/s and n/s angles are often slightly different due to safety features manufactures build in.eg-there set up so if you let go of the steering wheel they will slightly drift to the n/s of the road.one reason for this is that if you fell asleep at the wheel for example the car will go off the road rather than drifting into on coming traffic.there are other reasons for the different angles as well.as a guide if the vehicle drives ok then minor intolerences are nothing to worry about.another thing to remember is that the results are only as accurate as the bloke who operates and sets up the machine.

 

[siroldvolks]

Thanks Jay,

In this case though mine doesnt drive ok, which is why Im trying to find out the problem, cuz i just cant figure out whats wrong! Do you knwo of anywhere where i could find out whats these figures should be as a rough guide?

Ive been many places but no one has been able to actually find out what the problem is with my car - so frustrating

Thanks

 

[JAY172]

have all garages got near enough the same results?

whats up with the steering then?

 

[siroldvolks]

certainly regards to the caster and camber, just the garages have had roughly the same results.

Short while ago I had a knock on my NS wheel (i think someone reversed into it - but i was around to see - only assume) and since then, the steering has been crap. wanders all over the place. Bump steers like hell, drifts big time to left - the steeing just feels like crap really! you can feel that car pull all over the place. Lost all confidence in it, and dodgy riding at higher speeds.

dont know where to turn really as no one knows what the problem is.

 

[mr sheep]

guys do i need to have the alignment done after changing from 16" to 17" and havin lowered it?

 

[JAY172]

are all the suspension bushes ok? is the wheel or tyre damaged? is the shocker leaking fluid?

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 20 March 2004

guys do i need to have the alignment done after changing from 16" to 17" and havin lowered it?

lowered by how much?

 

[BenR]

Your castor diff is quite large, and if youve had a knock on your NS front then i would check the bushes, bush mountings, ARB mountings (as it can pull the wheel back). shock top mount, bent shocker...loads to check.

 

[Dan 172 Sport]

Quote: Originally posted by siroldvolks on 20 March 2004


good to be able to compair. Would be nice to see the camber results before fitting the eibachs, that way we can tell what difference the drop does make to camber.

I was looking at getting the same springs as yourself to improve handling, cuz im so fed up with how crap mine is!

Not sure if a normal tyre place can tell whether is good or bad to have differences with camber or castor. Dont know if they have any specific measurements to go on, on what it "should" be (unlike toe) - the readings are there for info(?)

I see im runing postive castor, which is bad right? Hopefully someone has info on what the measurements should be from factory...

Previous readings without lowered springs (01/08/03).

No castor results - sorry.

Camber:

Left = -0.47 degrees

Right = -0.35 degrees

0.12 degrees diff

Toe:

Left = -0.09 degrees

Right = -0.06 degrees

Hope it helps...

I know that the camber is less on the previous readings, but thats to be expected...

I think that your car needs the local shock area inspected and maybe some of the bushes replaced?

My camber angle diff between sides isnt that servere. I probably notice the car tramlining or just getting light over B road cambers and undulations at speed etc.

Have a look and see whats going on!

 

[siroldvolks]

Cheers guys. Least I knwo where to start looking. swapped the wheels over to eliminate that, and made no diff. Had at look at the NS susp area, but nothing obvious appeared noticably damaged. But at least I know what to look for, and in some sense hope I find something wrong!

On a slightly different note, what would cause the steering wheel to now sit to the left (when driving straight), now the tracking has been set ok? (before it sat to the right!) damaged track rod?

 

[BenR]

The tracking people not centering the steering wheel properly. If they are lazy they wont stick it right straight in the middle. Which can get annoying. Add to that the diffeernce between each sides tracking.

nothing major

 

[JAY172]

if the tracking is ok but the steering wheel is slightly off centre than you can easily straighten the steering wheel up using the track arm/end adjustment.if the steering is pointing to the left then shorten the left track arm and lengthen the right track arm.when i say shorten/lengthen it i mean screw the track arm in/out of the track rod end so lengthening/shorting the visible part.do it half a turn at a time.if you wind one side in half a turn you must wind the other side out half a turn.you have to do it the same number of turns to both sides otherwise youll knock out the tracking again.

 

[BenR]

or just go back and ask for them to do it again, you paid for it to be tracked straight.......not wonky

 

[JAY172]

well obviuosly you would go back if youd already paid someone to do it.just explained it out of interest.

 

[BenR]

with you all the way mate, dont worry.

But the only problem i find with that method is that if you get the tracking chequed again, its usualy out again by the time your done.

 

[JAY172]

i agree no point doing something yourself which you payed somebody to do in the first place.bound to be some cowboy kwik fit outfit.

 

[BenR]

Its just so annoying when you drive out of a 35 quid alignment session and the steering wheel aint blody centred!

Right back in and point it out........

steering straight = car straight

DOI!

 

[JAY172]

dont want an allignment check done at my place then.theyll empty your pocket of over £100 for a 4 wheel allignment check.

 

[BenR]

*faints*

is that optical or lazer?

 

[JAY172]

lazer.

 

[siroldvolks]

Eeek £100.. ouch. Well got mine redone again - tis slightly better. Least the steering wheel is straight! I dont know whether the steering is still problematic, as I cant remember how it used to be. And dont have anything to compare it to

New results:

http://www.siroldvolks.dsl.pipex.com/myphotos/steering/alignment2.jpg

Funny how the Caster is nearly the same each side now! Still like to know what the figure should roughly be anyways!

Camber is relatively the same. Dont think that is anything to worry about unless anyone thinks otherwise?

 

[mr sheep]

Quote: Originally posted by JAY172 on 20 March 2004

Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 20 March 2004

guys do i need to have the alignment done after changing from 16" to 17" and havin lowered it?

lowered by how much?

by 40mm but have never had alignment done since new (jan 2003) and the car was originally on 15s

 

[siroldvolks]

I would say yes have your alignment checked, epecally if it has been lowered. Try and find somewhere that checks the camber and caster measurements. That way you can see the current camber measurements.

I think a usual amount for a road car is between about 0 - 0.5 degrees negative(?) camber. You may want to check the inside of your tyres to check they are not wearing quicker than the rest of the tyres (this would indicated a lot of negative camber) and can be fixed with camber adjustment bolts.

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 21 March 2004

Quote: Originally posted by JAY172 on 20 March 2004

Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 20 March 2004

guys do i need to have the alignment done after changing from 16" to 17" and havin lowered it?

lowered by how much?

by 40mm but have never had alignment done since new (jan 2003) and the car was originally on 15s

are your tyres wearing evenly across the tread(eg-not wearing more on the inner edge)?

 

[mr sheep]

f.a.o jay, the 17s have not been on long so no real wear has taken place, the 16" before were fine interms of even wear etc... but i had the 172 wheels on before, so the offset is totally different to the 17s which are et 35 whereas the 172s were et 48 (i think) does this make a difference?

was told dynamique offset is 36 so got the closest to it as i could.

 

[mr sheep]

r u there jay172

 

[JAY172]

sounds like it will be ok then just keep an eye on the tyre wear and see how it goes.if you ever start getting uneven wear then get the allignment check done but you will need the camber adjusting bolts from k-tec to be able to adjust the camber.

 

[mr sheep]

cheers mate, i havent noticed any real difference from 16s with standard sus to 17s and lowered, but the suspension is diff to the 172 and the 1.2 dynamique.