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who does the best ported heads

ian-speedy

ian-speedy

ClioSport Club Member
Car  clio cup race car
Looking to start sorting a new engine now , so who does the best heads , looking for a very good spec engine for my rally car and want to get it up to 250 hp if I can , don't want just a fast road ported head as most offer , looking for a higher spec.
Interested in going larger one piece valves as well.

Cheers Ian
 
I haven't spoken to anyone yet , which is why I was asking on here , do they do there own heads or buy them in ?
 
you'll be needing DEEP pockets, Neil roper did ours which was a relativley basic job, stock sized valves, cut back guides and a wee bit of porting, was a 240bhp engine
 
Neil Roper is the man you need. He's probably the best head broddler in the country. I've not seen him for many years but he's a really nice guy and a genius with cylinder heads.
 
Fred@BTM said:
you'll be needing DEEP pockets, Neil roper did ours which was a relativley basic job, stock sized valves, cut back guides and a wee bit of porting, was a 240bhp engine
Click to expand...


Have you got a contact number for Neil Roper ?

What spec cams was that engine using to be 240hp ? if you had a mild spec head to achieve that power , then more headwork , larger valves and wilder cams should make 250hp achievable.

I was talking to someone the other day who's building an engine for someone and they are using custom pistons and longer rods which sounded interesting , they were also looking into Sodemo rockers to sort the issues the standard ones have at high revs , was told these are about £100 each , x 16 ! lol

I'm waiting to see how this engine turns out , they quoted me £9k which includes a custom exhaust manilfold , as well as TB's loom and ecu ect , all complete ready to fit ,
 
ian-speedy said:
Have you got a contact number for Neil Roper ?

What spec cams was that engine using to be 240hp ? if you had a mild spec head to achieve that power , then more headwork , larger valves and wilder cams should make 250hp achievable.

I was talking to someone the other day who's building an engine for someone and they are using custom pistons and longer rods which sounded interesting , they were also looking into Sodemo rockers to sort the issues the standard ones have at high revs , was told these are about £100 each , x 16 ! lol

I'm waiting to see how this engine turns out , they quoted me £9k which includes a custom exhaust manilfold , as well as TB's loom and ecu ect , all complete ready to fit ,
Click to expand...

The one Fred is on about had throttle bodies with high comp iirc

Have you seen Matts (TDF) thread on Motorsport spec engines? Price is similar too. Not sure if you're including vat.
 
Jonny1*2 said:
The one Fred is on about had throttle bodies with high comp iirc

Have you seen Matts (TDF) thread on Motorsport spec engines? Price is similar too. Not sure if you're including vat.
Click to expand...

Yes I guessed it was with throttle bodies ect , its obvious you won't get to that power without them , I'm having a full spec engine , steel rods , pistons , larger valves , full ported head , sodemo followers , solid lifters , wild cams , new ecu and loom , throttle bodies , and a simpson custom exhaust manifold , and system if needed
 
stock 182 manifold is fine for big power, save your money!

good luck actually buying the sodemo followers, they WILL NOT sell them to you unless you buy an engine from them
 
I can get Neil Ropers number from mate who runs race engine calibration at Rainham. He's an old mate of Neil.
 
ian-speedy said:
Have you got a contact number for Neil Roper ?


---they were also looking into Sodemo rockers to sort the issues the standard ones have at high revs , was told these are about £100 each , x 16 ! lol

I'm waiting to see how this engine turns out , they quoted me £9k which includes a custom exhaust manilfold , as well as TB's loom and ecu ect , all complete ready to fit ,
Click to expand...

Does everyone know whats about the sodemo rockers? Does the geometrie fit to a usual sport camshaft? I only know the special sliding rockers from Super 1600 engines which need a special designed cam lobe, prices beyond of privat budgets..... would like to know the differences compered to the standard parts. I guess they will fit as well on K4M what I need ! Does anyone know to source sodemo parts?


Thanks in advance

Udo
 
ian-speedy said:
Yes I guessed it was with throttle bodies ect , its obvious you won't get to that power without them , I'm having a full spec engine , steel rods , pistons , larger valves , full ported head , sodemo followers , solid lifters , wild cams , new ecu and loom , throttle bodies , and a simpson custom exhaust manifold , and system if needed
Click to expand...

Matts are single throttle mate. It's all about the inlets And exhaust system iirc.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=558022
 
Jonny1*2 said:
Matts are single throttle mate. It's all about the inlets And exhaust system iirc.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=558022
Click to expand...

Yes they have to use that single throttle to stay in the rules for super 2000 so will ultimately restrict power , I don't I can use whatever I want , so will go with ITB's

Thanks for the number , will give him a ring this week.

Does anyone know the difference in a Sodemo rocker , i'm sure they could be copied if they won't sell them , I was told they were available for about £100 each , i'll check back with them and see what they say

Cheers Ian
 
Single throttle doesn't really restrict power over ITB's so long as the inlets are decent, but I take your point mate ;)
 
Jonny1*2 said:
Single throttle doesn't really restrict power over ITB's so long as the inlets are decent, but I take your point mate ;)
Click to expand...


No it doesn't , but by restricting the size of the throttle would , as you wouldn't get the airflow through it on a smaller butterfly , I used to have one of the early Nissan Sunny GpA rally cars that run a certain size single throttle , I can remember the size , it produced 235hp , the later cars in kit car form changed to ITB's and were up around 285hp , IES who built those engines told me by just changing to ITB and a remap would give me another 30hp , and with a cam change would be up to 285hp.
 
I have been emailing some renault owners over in Europe today and got this email back that sounds interesting -

The 1600 and the 2000 have the same parts, and they are weak after 8000rpm

Solution 1) for less than 8500rpm : use the parts from Clio R3 Renault Sport

Solution 2) for more : use the parts from Clio Super1600 = around 8000euros only for the followers. Please see the following movies with this solution


Has any of the specialists on here used the later rockers , do they fit and are they stronger than the 172/182's ??

That would certainly be better than spending EIGHT THOUSAND EURO'S !! on 16 super 1600 rockers lol
 
to my knowledge, all the rockers are the same. I've not sat with a microscope, but there's certainly nothing special about 197/200 rockers compared to 172/182
 
ian-speedy said:
They don't like revs apparently.

Does anyone know the largest sized valves you can fit in a 172 engine ?
Click to expand...

Weak point tends to be the valves when the revs get too high iirc. Your best speaking to someone who builds these engines for Motorsport purposes really. Not heard of anyone on here using enlarged valves, and to be honest I don't think it's needed.
 
Jonny1*2 said:
Weak point tends to be the valves when the revs get too high iirc. Your best speaking to someone who builds these engines for Motorsport purposes really. Not heard of anyone on here using enlarged valves, and to be honest I don't think it's needed.
Click to expand...


I was talking to someone who builds these engines for motorsport use today , and they said its the valve size that is restricting power , Had a good chat with Neil Roper today and he said with the standard sized valves you wouldn't get more than 230hp , the valves just aren't big enough , hence my question if anyone has fitted larger ones
 
ian-speedy said:
I was talking to someone who builds these engines for motorsport use today , and they said its the valve size that is restricting power , Had a good chat with Neil Roper today and he said with the standard sized valves you wouldn't get more than 230hp , the valves just aren't big enough , hence my question if anyone has fitted larger ones
Click to expand...


I've heard of a home build, using standard size valves, and it made 248bhp a few weeks ago, so it certainly is possible
 
Guys,
F4R valves are 33,5 mm in/ 29 mm ex. and defnitly big enough for about 270 + bhp. I did german Vauxhall STW-enines in `99, very similar to BBTC, with pretty more than 300 bhp with valve sizes 35/30, later works engines generated 320 hp with this valves.

But I would like to discuss about rocker troubles: Due to my investigations, rocker problems will occure because of the standard geometrie of valvetrain what is not designed for a high valve lift layout with revs of more than 8000. The pivot angle of the rockers is ok with Std. 8,5 mm lift, with more than 12 mm transversal movements on the valve contact area will increase and as well the friction, what tries to pull off the rocker from the ball bearing of the hydrolifter. My intensions to fix this problem is as follows:
1. Replace the hydraulic lifters by solids, adjuste the valve clearance as small as possible ( all advices just for inlet)
2. Minimise the valve stem/guide clearance to 12-15 microns ( millimeter)
3. Coat the valve stems and head with DLC to minimise friction on the contact area
4. Don`t use high load valve springs, 700-750 N for 8000 rpm is normally ok
5. Use only camshaft profiles which are professional calculated, the program has to put out side loads,ball contact loads, dynamic spring loads aso.
6. On exhaust, 2 mm less lift as inlet are no problem for power, piston pockets and compr. ration can be optimised much more along with advantage for valve train conditions.

Anyway, I would like to have a look to sodemo rockers, I didn`t find a homepage or another source as yet for their race parts.

Cheers
Udo
 
I was emailing a couple of guys yesterday , this guy in Holland has copies of Sodemo rockers made by someone else , but they are still 6000 euro's a set of 16 !

His email address is snoey052@planet.nl

He said the head would need machining to fit them , and you would have to run a special cam , they can have 2.0lt cams made with a Super 1600 profile which suits his rockers and gives around 14mm of lift
 
...I`m worried the orders don`t come in as desired, most people will spent this for a complete engine :-) Anyway, big expense, lots of designing effort.....
 
I was told yesterday that a complete super 1600 engine from Sodemo is now 58000 euro's plus VAT !!
 
how hard are you planning on reving the thing? and more importantly why? you don't need to go over 8000rpm, the stock rockers are fine at this RPM in my opinion
 
As long as I can get to around 250 hp then i'll run without them if I can , a few have mentioned I'm stuck for cam choice running the standard rockers , I guess thats the main problem is i'm getting conflicting info from different people.

I want my car to compete with the best in my class , the 2.0lt class , I don't want just a good track engine , I want a very good rally engine , if that means changing the rockers to suit the cams I need then its something I need to look at.

How wild can I go with the cams while still using the standard rockers ?
 
ian-speedy said:
What do you mean ?
Click to expand...

F4r 830 or 832 head off a 197/200 is a better head to start with. You will still have to rocker issue to overcome, but nevertheless it's a better design in terms of looking for power.

It's not a 100% straight swap but you only have to do a very minor amount of work to get it to run with a 1*2 assembly.

Also there are good cam choices available. R3 rally car runs 230 on high comp, different cams and standard (ish) inlet.
 
240-250 is achievable with the stock rockers, obviously with rally engines (any engine infact) you want the strongest bits you can get for reliability, but at MEGA cost :(
 
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