Why is it when F1 used to have turbo cars manufactures were pushing out there sporty turbo cars... Now days it seems they are working really hard on engine design and getting lots of BHP out of N/A engines... But why not still turbo?? They could have produced a 1.6 16v VVT engine that produced 180 bhp turbod... Because the engine would have been lighter the car would drive much better..... have a hell of a lot of torque and handle better. These new turbos you dont even see any lag either!!!
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Why is it when F1 used to have turbo cars manufactures were pushing out there sporty turbo cars... Now days it seems they are working really hard on engine design and getting lots of BHP out of N/A engines... But why not still turbo?? They could have produced a 1.6 16v VVT engine that produced 180 bhp turbod... Because the engine would have been lighter the car would drive much better..... have a hell of a lot of torque and handle better. These new turbos you dont even see any lag either!!!
point is theyre not as reliable as n/a cars. They also need good cooling so youd need a bigger engine bay. Consumers want compact cars which will go on for ever.
Anyway, there are still plenty of turbo cars, ie the VAG group, vauxhall, ford, mercedes, subaru, mitsi, etc. Engines have come on a lot recently, and turbos arent neccessary as all manufactures are getting good power out of standard NA cars. Turbos have new uses, like for rover who turbo a smaller engines to beat tax.
In the days of turbo cars in F1, they could either use a 3500cc NA engine or a 1.5 turbo engine.
The 1.5 turbos used to run upto 4 bar of boost on overtake setting, which is over 60, yes 60psi.!!! The block and head were all one piece of metal, so they didnt theoretically have a cylinder head, and the pistons and valves were inserted through the bottom of the engine. No more head gasket problems.!!!
So, a 1.5 turbo engine that put out over 1000bhp. Now thats mad.!
Tom
ClioSport Club Member
EV (s)
Its happening now the turbo\supercharger craze is returning
Focus RS
Astra Turbo
Megane RS200
Mini Cooper S
New MG engines 1.8t
VAG 1.8t lump -Audi, Seat, Vw, Skoda
Smart Car/coupe/roadster
Reliability isnt really an issue on turbo cars (unless you tune them to silly boost)
the trend at the moment is to use valve timing gizmos and direct injection to gain more power
the 2.0 isnt that big, and remember turbos need intercoolers, thats the main thing that takes up space. Remember VW put a V6 in a mk3 golf, as well as the new R32, and alfa are doing the same with the upcoming GTA 147. Now id prefer a V6 over a turbo anyday.
My dad has a brabus smart for going into london, rear engined, rear wheel drive, paddleshift, great fun!
1500bhp in qualifying trim..........
but head to head, the lag cause some major drivability probs.
i think the main problem with turbos now is emissions compliance, and thats why some of them are running silly big boost as std.
witha turbo, reliability, cooling etc are not probs at all. they will happily go for 150,000 miles no worries.
Another Factor is Insurance.
Many car manufacturers know that their turbo models will only be set to a certain market/age
an 18-20 yr old may get insured on a Clio 172.
put a turbo in it as standard, and insurance company wouldnt dare touch an 18-20yr old.. coz they know its too much of a risk.
I mean, imagine if renault put turbos in 172s as standard... mmmmmmmmmmm
well, insurance aint so much of a prob.............
cause on teh continent, insurance premiums are so much lower. my mate has a 1.3 golf here, where he had a beemer 328i and an audo A8 in switzerland........Doi, why are we paying so much.
besides, dealers buy teh cars off the factory so they get the money no matter what.
I think the Ren 5 is a bit of a lairy choice considering they are so old now. I hate supras, theyre tacky, cheap, and little japanese men drive them. I was following a P1 in from work today, look nice and still hold their value. Plus that lovely noise! Insurance tho
s Id pick an evo if you mean a new one..wouldnt by a focus RS...im suprised a 172 wasnt in there...
Standard box and clutch in the MK4 Supra can handle over 600bhp if required. That goes for manual and Auto. So I dont know where you heard that from?
Also, the handling is superb, so I would also like to know where you heard it was crap? Maybe you should drive one instead of listen to all that pub talk.!
The Supra is actually one of the best Jap sportscars you can get, imo second only to the Skyline. They have no reliability issues and can quite easily out run most sports cars 4 or 5 time the cost of a Supra. ie. 911 turbo, 355 ferrari... etc... (and yes, before you ask, it has been done.)
Maybe if some of you drove the cars you like to sl*g off you might actually know what your talking about!
Haha,
sorry barry, i neglected to mention that i have driven almost every evolution of the supra ecept for the first.
My Father, who now works for renault, was the MD of Toyota HK and China.
anyways, we had the plain 3ltr, then the turbo, then the twin turbo........all of which, are rapid but defo NOT great cars.......not sl*gging, but the celica GT turbo was far better.
anyhow, he moved to renault and porsche just when the new supra came out. But, he had already established TOM toyota racing team and was team manager for the Macau GP for about 30yrs. Anyway, one of his best mates is teh top driver and co-starter of TOMs (TACHI-OIWA-MISAKI).......anyhow.....we raced the supras and they did very badly....even as a works effort.
and unfortunately about 2 yrs ago Tachis son was killed testing the new supra. Some amazing talent lost..................
So, i hear what i hear from TOMs themselves, and although the gearboxes can handle the power....they were not a string point in racing, with 2 goin one weekend.....the engines though are fab.....even though they are evolutions of the toyota crowns straight 6.....haha, which is a taxi here in HK!
But then again, i dont like skylines either......so, i guess you can call me extremely picky.......haha.
oops.....forgot to mention, Tiff raced for us and he hated them too.........got some fab pics of him in the Olympia blue and white supras though.....mind you, the track is exptremely bumpy and the supra didnt like that. But the skylines did fly away with it, they had to add 150kg of ballast to keep them in view!
Who said anything about a Supra race car!? A track car is only as good as the team that build it. Doesnt say anything for the road car.
Ill agree that the Mk3 is a bit of a boat and doesnt like going round corners, but then, I dont really like them that much, plus they have a big problem with blowing head gaskets. Everyone Ive spoken to that owns one has said this is a big problem.
Ive been watching the Japan GT series on Eurosport recently and the Supras dont seem to be doing that bad, against the Skylines and the NSXs.
well, it has been several years since i have even glanced at one.......
anyhow, things have come along way since then........but i dont think prep was a problem with TOMs hahaha.
ahhhhh...i just noticed you own a supra......no offence mate....im just telling it like i have seen and heard it.
which have you got?
but you must admist, they are fappin HUGE! and the centre console looks like a bloody F16 cockpit!
i woudltn turn one down though!
I do like pulsars, a lot, especially with super ts and front intercoolers, tasty!
As ive said before though, not keen on jap cars, i was thinking porsche boxsters are becoming in reach of a lot of people. I might get one next year, put RUF alloys on it and a p plate and it will look new
haha.....again, i dont like the GTiR.....now thats a car which understeers! but thats the average 4WD road car.
oh, if your gonna get a Porsche, make it a 964, the std boxster is heavily underpowered....by a long way......although it does handle well.....
but a 964 will be cheaper, faster and have more potential for less cash......*drool* RUF CTR.........
I got a Jap RZ twin turbo (Mk4), 1995 (N reg) in Black.
Your right though, the center console is masive, but really makes you feel like you part of the car, it just curves right round you.
So far Ive got: HKS front mount IC / Stage 3 hybrid turbos / Full Blitz pipe / both cats removed / racelogic traction control / Blitz bov and bald rear tyres.!!!
Id never buy a boxter, I raced one and completely blew it away, and it was the Boxter S (the faster one!).
I just love turbod cars so Id go for the 996 twin turbo, or even the GT2 if I were to go for a Porker.
excelent mate, but only prob with jap cars is Jap tunning gear is so so so so dear!!
i should know, i got a Hachi Roku being restored with a stonking 220bhp 1.6 4age motor (formula atlantic spec), and a whole load of toda racing parts, TRD stuff, cashiew and revolver parts....i tell you what, communicating with them in Japan is hard stuff!!
But cash has run out so its on hold.....pooo
Ben u remember last year some dude drove a twin turbo supra which lost control n it flew right into some signs in Central or somewhere. they called it the human cannonball
The GTR flew away coz of its HICAS system being 4 wheel n rear wheel n all that crazy stuff make it a bit more stable than the supra... god in NZ supras second hand are so cheap even the Twin Turbo ones as well just make them not so special anymore. They did have ridicously high new car prices if i remember correctly.
Hey just wonderin... supra turbo is runnin twinturbo 3.0L setup.... sayin it will out run a 911 turbo (both stock) . i dont think they can really. if u mod both would the 911 still take it? bein a larger capacity engine n so forth n great chasis
iis
well,
with these jap cars. std they are ltd to 280bhp.....so out the box, even though they are more likely to come with 320hbp or so, the 911 carrera will be the same with 360bhp.
the turbo is no match.
and the secret to jap big power is purely big turbos, nothing else.
as std, the porshe head are about as close to perfect as you can get, with only a handfull of people able to get any more flow out of the heads with no valves in place.
anyway, if you were to mod a supra or skyline to say 1000bhp, they do go fast, but not round corners......and the GTRs 4wd helps.
but a 800bhp 996 turbo, or more likely GT2 will have them for breakfast
