Would ABS have helped you

[Floodie]

Howdy - yet another noob post from me! - im SOoo close to getting my CUP - was meant to be at the weekend but some pump on the natwest helpdesk told me i can get a cheque to clear within 24 hrs if i pay 15quid.. but it still takes 3 working days no matter what! so i cant get the car on saturday anymore! rarr!! - Aaaannnyywayy.... I have had this "ooh 172, or Cup" argument over and over in my head... and i must admit that im 90% for the Cup.. BUT... another niggling thing is the lack of ABS on it... I have a question tho, and i know that it may sound stupid BUT... has anyone had a crash in their CUP that they think WOULDNT have happened if they HAD ABS???? - god i dont think ive had a car without ABS - ooh, yeh i have, my first car.. aww my trusty ol 1.3Nova SR!

Cheers all..

 

[Tom_16v]

Depends, how good a driver do you rate yourself as?

ABS will only really help you if you have no idea how to drive and just jump on the middle pedal and hope.......

In my opinion, a good driver shouldnt need it!

 

[Dave]

I love feeling it kick in and pulsing on my braking foot. Then I think that I could do it better myself! Probably just imagining the pulsing tough, just the shuddering!

 

[Floodie]

thats EXACTLY what i thought - I can count the times on one hand that ive had the ABS kick in (unintentionally) in the last 6 years of driving. Just didnt know if the breaking "feel" would be completely different without it.. But thinking about it, im being a dick and of course it wouldnt i spose..

 

[Lunner]

Ditto, but when you have a few seconds to brake and react instinct takes over. But i can hardley talk, in the grand scheme of things i cannt drive for sh*t, ive only been driving a year, so what if i drive fast everywhere and havent had, caused, or come close to having an accident yet.

 

[Dave]

I really have to resist the urge to pump tho.

 

[RS-Steve]

Ive got ABS on mine but never had to feel the benefit thank god.

Not sure you only need it if you got no idea how to drive as tom put it. wouldnt stop me gettin a cup tho. Thing is no matter how good a driver you are you cant pump as fast as ABS can

 

[Lee]

ABS only ever comes into play in extreme circumstances when on the road. Then it could be the difference between an accident or not. Its not how fast you can pump anyway, its usually a case of "f**k hit the pedal!!" If you are braking that hard the reason for it is usually because something took you by suprise

So far in the Clio its only come in twice, one of those occasions someone cut me up massively causing me to stomp the pedal while the right side of the car was on some loose gravel. That day I was very glad to have it.

It does reduce feel through the pedal though, and would certainly spoil track day fun to an extent.

 

[KDF]

This has been discussed to death before, at the end of the day if someone pulls out infront of me and I got seconds to react and steer round the obstical I know which car I would rather be in.

Having said that if I was driving on tracks, round race circuts I would prefer to go without ABS. Hardly scientific but there have been more than a few written off Cups posted up on here, with one cup driver saying that he probably wouldnt have slid off the road through a hedge into a tree if he had had ABS.

But its your descision, drive carefully and at resonable speeds on the road and you should never need ABS, its the idiots that like to pull out infront of you that make me want abs, and when driving in the wet it is very re-assuring to have, doesnt mean you can drive faster just means you got a bit of help should you get into trouble.

As it stands the 172 has one of the best stopping distances going, beating porsche and some ferraris..

 

[Jones]

im just glad i have it, mine has kicked in a few times but its those times like when u are on a wet motorway and the traffic just STOPS in front of u that im glad i have it especially since ill prob be going alot quicker than i would of in my old un-absd car

 

[Floodie]

Thanks for that - as i thought, its only really used if in extreme circumstances such as someone else being a fool, which wouldnt be your fault, OR if your being a tw*t and driving beyond your abilities and locking up into bushes, babies or walls...

Good, ill be fine then - so im with the cup once again!!. Thanks for all replies but ill probably have another annoying question tomorrow!! - oh one more thing.. KDF, you mentioned the 172 having one of the best stopping Ds - you mean the 172 and cup yes? i assume the lack of ABS doesnt decrease stopping distance just decreases control when skidding (sorry if dumb question! lol)

 

[mechachrome]

i agree with silver, and KDF can come in handy if you need it, thats why its there!, but if your that bothered about having it get a sport, else get a cup, obviously if you can drive as great as some of the people on here, none of the cars would have that fiddly ABS!!!!

luckily like others i havent needed to use it! touch wood!! but am glad its in my car!

 

[Tom1600]

It must be useful when youre coming up to a roundabout and think you have enough time to cross over it, then at the last second you decide not to and give way abruptly...

 

[badinvincible]

i thought being on cliosport automatically made you a better driver than anyone else on the road?

 

[toonboy]

i have used it in such circumstances in my 1.6 dynamiqye that i crashed. if you are breaking heavily it can be annooying if it comes on as it does increase braking distances when it comes on just as you have nearly stopped

 

[philip]

Other cup drivers may not agree with me, but I think you should get ABS. Under all normal road circumstances, ABS is definitely a bonus. If you need to make an emergency stop, you need to slam on the brakes and keep manoeuverability and ABS will give you that. A lot of accidents happen because people do not brake hard enough, and the last thing you need as youre about to slam into granny is cadence braking bullsh*t. Not having ABS is only a bonus if you are on track and unless thats your intention you are better off with ABS. It hasnt been around in most cars for 15 years for nothing.

Thats my 2 cents: go for ABS

 

[mechachrome]

badinvincible - hee hee!!! i have to wait for my sticker to come thru first i guess!!

 

[Floodie]

Cheers phil (im gonna call you Phil for now as its shorter than "Philip") - Well, "phil (im gonna call you Phil for now as its shorter than "Philip")" is much longer than "Philip" so f**k it, Ill call you Philip..

erm, anyway, yeh cheers for that now im thinking - ooh 172!.. but NO i love the colour of Cup, wheels and bareness.. oh, damn it!.. its times like this when you need Mumm-Ra!!!

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by Floodie on 19 February 2004

you mean the 172 and cup yes

The cup is a 172..



Oh and you WILL take longer to stop in a Cup, especially in the wet, there is no-one on here that can just the exact braking pressure that should be applied by taking into account the level of grip and the surface conditions on the road, you would either be braking to hard (lock up) in which case you almost double the stopping distance or not braking hard enough, in which case you will also take longer to stop.

 

[Floodie]

IS IT???? - is that what everyone thinks? - that a Cup IS a 172? (uh-oh theres the fuse lit - time to run )

 

[Neil82]

Touches wood, never ever locked up the brakes on my Cup unless Ive been really trying to. Ask Paul_CTR how good they are in the wet when youve got a set of F1s on your car, said it stopped quicker than his CTR with the sh*tty standard tyres on it.

 

[KDF]

Er, ye.. its a Renaultsport 172 Cup

Ive highlighted it a bit just incased you missed it.







Niel, youve pretty much hit the nail on the head, dont matter if you got the best brakes in the world if you got sh*t tyres fitted. Best thing you can do to improve stopping distance/reduce lock ups is to fit some quality tyres.

 

[Floodie]

Coolio - thanks KDF, Neil and all.... its a Cup again now.. oh but 53 Zero miles or 5k already run in! lol...

Lol @ KDF too.. hey how come you can get away with saying a 172 is a cup and bet if i said it everyone would rip me apart by saying its not its a cheap mans blah de blah and the 172 Vs Cup "wars" would start again... hehe

 

[Jim172CUP]

at the end of the day, good tyres and good conditions play the biggest part. Take these away and youre at the mercy of good luck.

 

[007]

Never needed ABS yet in 9 years of driving - touch big piece of wood!

 

[Mark@Ritchspeed]

I have always driven with the fuse pulled out of the abs . Its not just on track I find abs hinders progress , but also on bumpy country roads where it is constantly triggering when braking hard for a corner .

With the abs activated its easy to miss braking points . At the end of the day though , its down to personal preference .

 

[nonos]

Another reason why ABS is good (happened when my dad was driving). On the motorway at 80, suddenly all the cars stopped (there was an accident or something). My dad was breaking hard, the wheels locked, then as a result the engine stalled, which means no more brake assistance, no power steering, nothing!. And dont give me that BS about pumping. When you are in an emergency situation, you dont have the time to think of that. Did stop in time but that was quite scary.

Also for _KDF, dont overestimates the 172 brakes. According to a french mag I was reading last summer, the 172 is the Clio that stop shortest, but take a new Megane (of any sort) and it will outbrake you. (they could have been well wrong, but that is what they published)

 

[Iain C]

Philip is you where that bothered about abs shouldnt you have brought a normal 172?

Must say abs might have come in handy for some of my situations but as the cup is undamaged i rekon i got away with it

 

[visceral]

from the articles section.

but it proved the safest of all 28 cars on test as it decelerated from 100mph to 0mph in only 3.99 seconds - beating cars including Ferrari 360 Modena, Lamborghini Diablo GT, Caterham Superlight R500 at 450kg, and Porsche 911 Turbo.

The Clios combination of disc brakes front and rear with an anti-lock system and electronic brake distribution means that maximum braking effort is individually regulated to each wheel. This system, combined with the Clios light kerbweight of 1,035 Kg, enables it to slow quicker than just about anything else on the road.

Ill take the ABS please, oh and I rate myself as not a bad driver (18 years in a car, and 10 years on a bike), but I DO NOT overestimate my abilities - graveyards are full of those types.

 

[Smokey McPot]

I stacked my cup.

ABS probably would have helped. Ho hum.

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by Mark@Ritchspeed on 20 February 2004I have always driven with the fuse pulled out of the abs . Its not just on track I find abs hinders progress , but also on bumpy country roads where it is constantly triggering when braking hard for a corner .With the abs activated its easy to miss braking points . At the end of the day though , its down to personal preference .


Well good luck with that, by pulling the fuse you not only disabled ABS but also the Brake force distribution, and you are now putting 50% force to front and 50% to rear instead of the usual 90/10 in favour of the front.

more than likely to spin under heavy braking.



One other thing.. directed to the person that said he drives faster cause hes got ABS... somehow I think you missed the point of ABS.

 

[philip]

Quote: Originally posted by Iain C on 20 February 2004


Philip is you where that bothered about abs shouldnt you have brought a normal 172?

Must say abs might have come in handy for some of my situations but as the cup is undamaged i rekon i got away with it

I bought my cup for frequent track use where ABS is annoying. I have also been driving for 22 years, including tense moments with and without ABS. thats not the same profile as the guy who was asking about ABS. He was asking for normal road use, and for that ABS is better in almost every condition.

 

[182 sport]

when i bought my 172 i didnt even consider cup,not coz of just abs,everything else u dont get.Cup is still great,just not what id need

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by philip on 20 February 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Iain C on 20 February 2004Philip is you where that bothered about abs shouldnt you have brought a normal 172?Must say abs might have come in handy for some of my situations but as the cup is undamaged i rekon i got away with it[/QUOTE]I bought my cup for frequent track use where ABS is annoying. I have also been driving for 22 years, including tense moments with and without ABS. thats not the same profile as the guy who was asking about ABS. He was asking for normal road use, and for that ABS is better in almost every condition.


ye almost every condition apart from snow.. heh that was fun...

I understand completly where your comming from though, if I was doing majority track days I would ditch the ABS too. Lets face it you dont NEED abs on the road, people have been driving for centuaries without it, but while you dont need it, its certainly worth having on todays roads.

 

[Blackman]

To be honest ABS comes in very handy when driving at speed, maybe that makes me a bad driver but it good to rely on when you need it.

 

[Mark@Ritchspeed]

Quote: Originally posted by _KDF on 20 February 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Mark@Ritchspeed on 20 February 2004
I have always driven with the fuse pulled out of the abs . Its not just on track I find abs hinders progress , but also on bumpy country roads where it is constantly triggering when braking hard for a corner .

With the abs activated its easy to miss braking points . At the end of the day though , its down to personal preference .

Well good luck with that, by pulling the fuse you not only disabled ABS but also the Brake force distribution, and you are now putting 50% force to front and 50% to rear instead of the usual 90/10 in favour of the front.

more than likely to spin under heavy braking.



One other thing.. directed to the person that said he drives faster cause hes got ABS... somehow I think you missed the point of ABS.

What ? The percentage of brake force distributed to the rear of the car is controlled by the pressure regulating valve located under the rear of the car . It by no means distrbutes 50% of the effort to the rears . Where did you get that bit of information from ? If the abs ever failed then the brakes would work exactly like a non-abs set-up .

Incidentally the standard setting to the rear brakes of a Williams is around 80kgs psi which I have re-adjusted to 120kgs psi to enable the rear to work a little harder to aid turn-in . This is done by adjusting the pressure regulating valve .

Many people have ridden in my old Williams on track and been amazed at the braking ability .

 

[CUP80Y]

Nope, not crashed the Cup (touch wood)

Ive done 30k in mine, and I drive as quickly as conditions / traffic allows. Ive locked up about three times, couple of times on a dry road - I think only once in the wet. Admittedly I was lucky and I had already pointed the car in the right direction to skid past the other car!!! ABS would definately help in an emergency situation, no question. (But you always think it wont happen to you)

The quickest way to stop a car on a dry road is to slam on the anchors and skid to a halt. You will stop quicker like this than if you have ABS, albeit with no control over direction!!

I rated the Cup so much when considering 172 / Cup there was just no other choice. (And Ive never owned a car with ABS, so Im well used to cadence braking) - you just get a feel for the limits and try to be as observant as possible and anticipate problems ahead.

 

[silvagti]

Wouldnt buy a car without ABS now Ive experienced it even tho my first 2 cars didnt have it. Theres only been the one time Ive needed it but thats enough to convince me. I was driving behind another car (only bout 30-40mph with a row of parked cars to my left and oncoming traffic to the right. For some reason the car in front of my slammed on the anchors so I had to do the same. I know everyone talks about cacadence breaking but realistically in someone walks out between parked cars in front of you breaking gentlys gonna be the last thing on your mind! Anyway, the driver in the car in front in front skided, nearly hit the parked cars and was left facing sideways at the parked cars. Me, on the other hand, slammed the breaks on full pelt, the ABS kicked in and I stopped quickly and in a straight line. More thanks to the ABS than any skill on my part

As ever though , theres no susbsitute for keeping an eye on the road ahead and trying to anticipate dangers.

Doh, just read this post and realised I sound like my dad

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by Mark@Ritchspeed on 20 February 2004
Quote: Originally posted by _KDF on 20 February 2004Quote: Originally posted by Mark@Ritchspeed on 20 February 2004I have always driven with the fuse pulled out of the abs . Its not just on track I find abs hinders progress , but also on bumpy country roads where it is constantly triggering when braking hard for a corner .With the abs activated its easy to miss braking points . At the end of the day though , its down to personal preference .[/QUOTE]

Well good luck with that, by pulling the fuse you not only disabled ABS but also the Brake force distribution, and you are now putting 50% force to front and 50% to rear instead of the usual 90/10 in favour of the front.

more than likely to spin under heavy braking.



One other thing.. directed to the person that said he drives faster cause hes got ABS... somehow I think you missed the point of ABS.[/QUOTE]What ? The percentage of brake force distributed to the rear of the car is controlled by the pressure regulating valve located under the rear of the car . It by no means distrbutes 50% of the effort to the rears . Where did you get that bit of information from ? If the abs ever failed then the brakes would work exactly like a non-abs set-up . Incidentally the standard setting to the rear brakes of a Williams is around 80kgs psi which I have re-adjusted to 120kgs psi to enable the rear to work a little harder to aid turn-in . This is done by adjusting the pressure regulating valve .Many people have ridden in my old Williams on track and been amazed at the braking ability .


The info came from BenR...

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 21 February 2004
Nope, not crashed the Cup (touch wood)Ive done 30k in mine, and I drive as quickly as conditions / traffic allows. Ive locked up about three times, couple of times on a dry road - I think only once in the wet. Admittedly I was lucky and I had already pointed the car in the right direction to skid past the other car!!! ABS would definately help in an emergency situation, no question. (But you always think it wont happen to you) The quickest way to stop a car on a dry road is to slam on the anchors and skid to a halt. You will stop quicker like this than if you have ABS, albeit with no control over direction!! I rated the Cup so much when considering 172 / Cup there was just no other choice. (And Ive never owned a car with ABS, so Im well used to cadence braking) - you just get a feel for the limits and try to be as observant as possible and anticipate problems ahead.


If you lock up in the dry you will take longer to stop.. fact. The quickest way to stop in the dry is to not lock up.