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CupBoy, yup your right there, but it naffs your tyres up though...
I drive both an ABS equipped car and a none ABS car, and jumping between them is nothing, i dont miss the ABS in the Mondeo and i havnt really set off the ABS in 3.5 years of scoob ownership, even on bumpy country roads
(it must be my tecnique i use for going into corners )It "may" get you out of a situation, but to get into that situation, 99 times out of 100 its your own fault, now this can be put down to the driver and the fact that they have (or think they have) a quicker stopping car, well its not quite correct, they also think that ebd and the likes are all there to aid the driver, well not also 100% correct, its actually there when you mess up, if you use it on a daily basis then you need to examine your driving skills, and like i have already stated, it doesnt bother me going from an ABS equipped car to a none ABS equipped car.
Tony
The quickest way to stop is with a 15% slip on the wheels - Roadcraft.
This is entirely possible without abs but extremly difficult to master. i.e you are applying the brakes at 85% but this will be dependant upon conditions.
ABs merely achieves this 15% slip through applying and disengaging brakes far quicker than cadence could. Lets face it manuafactures are hardly lilkly to put abs on their cars if it means they brake slower!
ABS is confused by loose surfaces such as gravel. As other peeps ahve said in therory you should never need it but when it has operated on the few occasions in my golf, I have been glad of it!
If the car is your everyday car then It is a good option, seeing as my cup only sees dry days then it wasnt important for me!
What ABS does though is to give you back some steering. When you apply the brakes to the extreme, weight is transfered to the front of the car and all the available tyre grip is used for braking, leaving none for steering. By having this 15% slip, it gives you back some of the trye grip to steer with!
Brazo,
You should be able to take your cup out in every condition and adapt your driving to that condition rather than have the car out on dry days, this just defeats the object of owning one.
CupBoy is also correct about stopping with a none ABS car, Top gear did a test between 2 mondeos, one with and one without (both the same spec) and in the dry the none equipped car stopped a good few lengths earlier than the ABS equipped car, in the wet and on the chicane the ABS car was better though. You should also never have to think about ABS, you should just get into the car and drive, it shouldnt make any difference to what you do on a daily basis, you shouldnt have to adapt to the fact your car has ABS, you shouldnt notice it one bit.
Tony
I agree with you Tony but with a free company car the cup stays dry on wet days!
Whilst I cannot comment on any individual test the above 15% wheel slip is fact, Locking up the wheels will not help you stop quicker!
Perhaps the mondeo didnt lock up? The 172 cup will out brake some ferraris, but again it is still not best to lock up!
To be fair ABS is only designed not to lock the brakes which will give you some steering in an emergency situation. The common misconception is that it will stop you quicker, and under certain circumstances it will and under others it wont but either way you wont lock the wheels up so should be able to steer around hazard!
A by product of locking the wheels in the wet is definately taking a lot longer to stop. But in the dry a car is well documented as being able to stop quicker locking up than one with ABS assistance, but with lost steering and massive flat spots on the tyres!!!
I had to emergency brake in my golf once from 75 - 0 - it was in the dry (thank god), I locked up at 75 and held on until id stopped (A few feet from another frightened looking bloke in a vectra). Afterwards I looked at the massive skid marks and aside from thinking how lucky I was, I thought it would definately have taken longer if id let off and pumped em!!
The Jinx
Youd have to get scientific to determine whether locked wheels stop sooner. It will all depend upon the compund of the rubber, the temperatures reached and so on.
Theoretically once enought heat is generated the tyre will simply lose most of its frictional force with the road surface, thus massively increasing braking distances.
Besides. Modern ABS systems are that good that many will not be outbraked by non-ABS cars.
Pink & Blue 182, JDM DC2
I smashed up my Cup, £1,000 worth of damage six weeks into ownership. ABS would not have stopped me.
Since then Ive had some near misses, but you learn to anticipate better and pay better attention Ive found.
You should not be relying on ABS to save you when you get it wrong.
A year on, and the Cup is better than ever.
Audi TT Stronic
----"but it proved the safest of all 28 cars on test as it decelerated from 100mph to 0mph in only 3.99 seconds - beating cars including Ferrari 360 Modena, Lamborghini Diablo GT, Caterham Superlight R500 at 450kg, and Porsche 911 Turbo.
The Clios combination of disc brakes front and rear with an anti-lock system and electronic brake distribution means that maximum braking effort is individually regulated to each wheel. This system, combined with the Clios light kerbweight of 1,035 Kg, enables it to slow quicker than just about anything else on the road. "----
Wasnt that the MKI?? and i didnt think the 172 had EBFD, i was under the impression that lower (but not base spec) models did. could be wrong, seem to remember looking on the Renault website.
ABS for me hasnt ever activated in the dry. A good little tip is to use your left foot for breaking ((on a clear road)) because your right foot becomes sensitive, this was you can test your breaks. put in neutral (so not to stall) stamp on from about 50-60mph with your left foot and on a dry road with tyres warmed there is no ABS.
The benefit as far as im concerned is Wet conditions, but maybe fast driving in these conditions isnt recommended anyway? thing is, im in England when is it not Raining
Grooved discs dont increase stopping power . All they do is stop the pads from glazing over . In most conditions grooved discs are inferior to plain vented discs .Quote: Originally posted by y0z2a on 24 February 2004
go get grooved disks on your cup.
thats stopping power!
Looked at ABS - the facts. Says that stopping distances on slippery surfaces are longer without it. Couldnt find a statement suggesting that stopping with ABS is quicker than locking the wheels completely.
Two identical cars, one with ABS one without, same conditions and all other possible variables identical, the road dry - the one without ABS will stop quickest by locking up and skidding to a halt.
In no way am I suggesting that a car without ABS is better for everyday use, but in the circumstance above, I is correct.
Im FAR from an expert, but lets look at it in a scientific way, shall we?
Well, its all about what happens when the car is braking, right? Basically, the cinetic energy of the car is disipatted through friction (which generates heat n stuff, so disipates energy). Were talking about friction between the braking pads and the braking discs or - if the wheels are locked - friction between locked wheels and the road.
So, when it comes to locking or not locking the wheel it all comes in fact to which friction is better at dissipating energy. In other words, which friction is stronger. Keep in mind that with the ABS the friction between the brake pads and the discs is not constant.
Lets take the two extreme cases:
1. VERY DRY ROAD WITH GREAT FRICTION BETWEEN THE LOCKED WHEELS AND THE ROAD
In this conditions the friction between the locked wheels and the road might be better than the friction (taking into account those ABS interruptions) generated by the braking pads pressing on the discs. In this case the car that locks the wheels should stop faster. But it might be quite hard to find the wheels - road combination that will give that kind of friction. Plus the temperature of the tyres comes into play etc. At least the pads and discs are quite constant as far as friction goes, I guess. Or they should be, at least
2. VERY WET ROAD WITH NILL FRICTION BETWEEN THE LOCKED WHEELS AND THE ROAD
This is the exact opposite situation. Lock the wheels and youll have ZERO friction with the road, youll slip like a sledge and youll stop... sometime
Dont lock the wheels and the friction between the pads and the discs will stop you much faster.So, at least in theory, its about which friction is stronger. Locked wheels and road or pads and discs? With the ABS youre not using the 1st category of friction when braking (well, just in theory, as the ABS allows small portions of skid anyway, as I know it). So, youre limited to the braking force of the pads and discs and - in certain conditions - the locked wheels and road combination could be better.
Of course, a lot of other factors come into play, but as I see it, this should be a rather good approximation.
Thats about it. Sorry for long post
-Da Newton
TDI tyre shreader
KDF, i think this may have been directed at me, i wasnt meaning to say that i would be driving faster cos i have ABS, i was saying that because i have a 172 rather than a 1.4 rallye (my old car) my motorway speeds would be higher, maybe, and on the whole the 172 is a car that can put u in dodgy situations alot faster than other cars that are on the road that lack ABS. So if such an emergency situation did arise i would be greatful for ABS, not for making me driving faster - which it doesnt.
