is a rarb necessary with damper adjustable coilovers?

[Bobby.]

so if you have coilovers like the spax or ast's with the rear coilover type, would you think that a rear anti roll bar is going to benifit the car's handling still, or is it just a case of you could stiffin up the dampers by a few more clicks instead?

i guess another way of putting it is does a rarb give another way of adjusting the car to suit your driving style or can rear coilover do the same job as a rarb?

 

[Dan519]

there are both yes and no answers to the same question to be honest. It's not quite as clearcut as one superceding the other. You can account for it to some degree as long as stiffening doesn't compromise damping in a straight line. I prefer it without an additional ARB personally (There is one as standard already, built into the axle), but that is primarily for road use, so it depends what you are doing. No right or wrong, no one size fits all, try stuff and see what works (that is the wohole point of adjustment)

 

[Bobby.]

The cars is a daily but I want to make the handling better for track work.

The way I look at it is if it not really needed then I would rather sell it and it would pay for another track day.
But on the other hand I want the car to handle as well as possible. And if it will still make a difference then ill use it.

I noticed at Css that the burpspeed boys don't use one and it got me thinking

I guess I will have to have a play and see if I can feel any difference.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Think more about what the parts of the suspension as standard do:

Damping effects the rate of change of angle of lean.
Springs effect the total amount of lean.

ARB does the latter not the former, so if you are looking for its equivalence, its in terms of being the same as harder rear springs rather than stiffer rear shocks.

 

[Dan519]

The cars is a daily but I want to make the handling better for track work.

The way I look at it is if it not really needed then I would rather sell it and it would pay for another track day.
But on the other hand I want the car to handle as well as possible. And if it will still make a difference then ill use it.

I noticed at Css that the burpspeed boys don't use one and it got me thinking

I guess I will have to have a play and see if I can feel any difference.

the burpspeed car has a stiffened beam with plate sections welded in. This does the job of an ARB

 

[Chip-mk1]

The biggest advantage of an ARB is that when you go over something like a sleeping policeman in the road, it has no impact on stiffness, so it only effects roll resistance not straight line suspension strength. thats why car manufacturers often run substantial ones, so the ride quality is better than if they relied on springs alone.

On a race car, there is no real advantage to an ARB over stiffer springs other than the ARB can be used as a very easy adjustment (ie turn up at a track and its wet, just disconnect it or move it to a less stiff hole, which is quicker than a spring change)

In an ideal world you would have an in car adjustable ARB, like some of the old E30 M3 touring cars and the like had.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

When I first bought the Cup used with out - understeerd a fair bit.

Fitted White line set to medium - no understeer

Now carrying a fair bit more speed into corners understeer is appearing again (not much mind) - so will set to "hard" and see what effect it has.

You'll get your money back as they retain value.

 

[Bobby.]

Some brilliant info here chaps thank you.

Out of curiosity what suspension do you have and how do you have it set chip?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Some brilliant info here chaps thank you.

Out of curiosity what suspension do you have and how do you have it set chip?

On our 197 cams and RS2 car my mrs uses as a daily, its all standard cup stuff except for eibach springs:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...r-RS2-clio-172-at-combe-today&highlight=combe

On our turbo clio:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...of-our-phase-1-turbo-at-combe&highlight=combe
Its custom modified wishbones, and H&R coilovers, but TBH in that video you cant really see the effects as we had some oil contamination on one tyre so I was taking it steady.


Both have all new bushes and mounts etc, thats the key thing to getting these cars to handle well in the first place, no modifications should be done IMHO until after all the bits like track rods and and rod ends and rack bushes etc are new.



Both handle nicely, but are not race cars by a long way, the suspension is way too soft for that.

 

[Bobby.]

Sounds good chip, even though I haven't replaced bushes etc. Everything did feel really tight when I was last inspecting them with a lever bar, maybe they were replaced by one of the previous owners or its had an easy life either way im happy with them.

Anyway back on topic, so I guess in a way it is still worth keeping the rarb as it strengthens the rear beam as well as giving you more options of adjustment. Sound about right?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Strengthen is the wrong word really, its not about strength its about stiffness, and it isnt automatically the case that stiffer is better or we would all have a scaffold pole welded to it, its about what suits your driving style.

For me for example I like the rear end of the car quite loose, so I'd like a RARB on our RS2 car to make it just a little bit over steery, but my mrs prefers it more stable at the back, so consequently I havent fitted one, as she mainly uses that car.
Conversely though on the turbo, its enough of a handful that I dont actually want the tail loose, so no RARB on that car either for that reason, but maybe if I get a diff later on I will change my mind then.

 

[Lal B3N]

I'm running the Spax PSX kit at the moment (on setting 14 of 28) and find that rear end is nice and controllable , I have a rear arb sat waiting at work but unsure whether or not to fit it, i guess there is only one way to find out.

I don't do many track days though so not sure if i will see a benefit out of it, but for what I'm paying i can make a profit.

 

[Kelv]

Chip, in your opinion, would you fit the whiteline rear ARB if in our shoes, or remain with the standard item.

Im just fitting the AST's, Pure motorsport top mounts with the strut brace.
All front end bushes renewed etc.
I do have a brand new whiteline ARB still boxed in the garage waiting to go on aswell, but I don't want to go 'to far' and find I've made everything too firm at the risk of making it worse on track.
Im no longer worried about road use, other than to/from the track days.

Also fitting the stud conversion kit, rear beam strengthening kit, rear beam spherical bearing kit, but these later items probably won't be on in time for our ring trip.

Just curious to yours (and others) views on the nessecity of the Whiteline ARB with these other items already fitted!?

 

[BIGASH]

I am planning on testing my current setup (AST 2's) with the varying levels of adjustment on the RARB. I will be getting a feel for it but it will also be backed up with some simple lap/sector time data. At the moment I am struggling with low speed turn in and understeer and think the arb will help. I will report back with my findings

 

[Alex Conway]

The biggest advantage of an ARB is that when you go over something like a sleeping policeman in the road, it has no impact on stiffness, so it only effects roll resistance not straight line suspension strength. thats why car manufacturers often run substantial ones, so the ride quality is better than if they relied on springs alone.

On a race car, there is no real advantage to an ARB over stiffer springs other than the ARB can be used as a very easy adjustment (ie turn up at a track and its wet, just disconnect it or move it to a less stiff hole, which is quicker than a spring change)

In an ideal world you would have an in car adjustable ARB, like some of the old E30 M3 touring cars and the like had.

Don't forget squat and dive! Not as big a thing on the rear of the Clio though.