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Body panels, roof, headlights, make the tires out of balloons and fill them with helium ;)

So they gave it 10 extra BHP for no reason did they? ;) Roadtest figures suggest the 182 is a good 1+ second faster than a ph2 172, not a huge amount i know, but still...

Bloody hell mate. That is expensive. Thats equivalent to £5245 to fill up your tank :eek:

LMFAO. I think the clue is in the name mate ;)

Surely a good handling car isnt one with vague steering though? For me part and parcel of a good handling car is at least being able to feel something through the wheel. To me the 197 sounds like a car that grips well and doesnt roll much, but doesnt neccesarily handle well (too vague...

Does seem to take mine a while too. I've pretty much accepted now i wont be able to open her up fully on the way to work now (8 miles). Once the water temp needle reaches the middle though and i will take it up to around 5k. A few more minutes after that maybe 6k. What does everyone else do?

Totally agree. It seems very strange indeed to me.

Unbelievably, IMO its now the Suzuki Ignis Sport that fills the brief of a cheap, fun drivers car IMO. Its extremely cheap to buy, handles well, has respectable (but nowhere near as good unfortunately) performance, and is fun to drive. Pretty much all of the hot hatches now are either too...

Top speed is probably down to a short final drive ratio? That and / or the diffuser causing downforce, which allegedly slows its top speed slightly. Acceleration wise perhaps they just need to loosen out a bit?

So much for the Megane being cheaper then. I knew this would happen. It was obviously going to happen.

I had a big Jag saloon right up my chuff once, and not only did I slightly pull away on the straights, but he was so determined to try and keep up that he tried going through the bendy bits just as quick as I was and nearly lost it several times.

Thats subjective though, perhaps the author felt the Clio was more fun to drive, I dont know (as I havent read it). Just because you feel its better doesnt mean to say that they have to agree. I read in one mag where they put a load of hot hatches around a track, and also a Subaru Impreza STI...

Its a Renault. You can guarantee they will be discounted in the end. £16k is too much for a 2-litre Clio with nothing special about it particularly (unlike say, a Trophy).

23 MPG is its urban figure so that sounds about right. Its combined figure is about 31 MPG IIRC so its about 10 - 15% worse on the juice than a 182.

People just cant seem to accept the clio is a fun car and deserves to be mentioned. All these people who **** it off and say "no way is the clio better cos whatever car is faster", please find me a negative review of the Clio, because i am yet to see one. Focus RS better? Perhaps. However...

Mine is also quite bad when cold. I think its even worse since I got the new exhaust put on. But i just put up with it.

What is it now?

LOL. Oh well... I'll drive one if it makes any difference, but honestly i think i've got a good enough impression from reading the many other reviews. Just out of curiousity though, have you driven a CTR? I know its not relevant in this "argument" particularly, and i'm not having a go...

GTI Mk5 in the top 6? :S

Yes, but the Meganes been out a good while now. Just wait around a year (or less, possibly), and I can guarantee the Clio will ALWAYS be cheaper. The £16k price they are at the moment is NOT sustainable.

172/182 prices will continue to go down at the predicted rate.

The RRP of the 225 is nearly £20k. How does that make it cheaper? I'd imagine it also costs slightly more to run too. I've often heard the 225 criticised for having a "too high" seating position too.

No i've not driven one, but you have to admit theres a fair few similarities:- Kerb weight the same. 6-gears. Revvy engine. Virtually identical power output. Similar electronic power steering... That seems a lot closer in spirit to the CTR than the 182 to me. I'm not going to drive one...

You dont need my permission at all. But when you say stuff like:- That implies that there is no other acceptable outcome / opinion. Why do people always resort to name calling on this forum when you try and have a discussion.... But if you are going to be like that: tosser.

My right hand side thumbgrip has split after 14,000 miles. Tried to glue it shut but that lasted not very long. Steering wheel looks a mess. Havent been to dealers yet, but add my name if you wish.

My anti-hijack thing doesnt work. Neither does the lock button on the dash. The dealer told me it will never work either due to the way the alarm is wired in. Not sure why really, but i've had this looked at three times and they said the same each and every time.

:S Another know-it-all on ClioSport. Shock horror! Things like grip are absolutes. It either grips more or it doesnt. Handling, that is subjective. How you cant see that I dont know. This is why people have different opinions on different cars, otherwise it would always be completely clear...

Again, thats subjective. There seems to be no shortage of people who seem to think the 106 GTI handles better than the 182. Ford Racing Puma? Integra Type R? <<Insert whatever car people have a personal bias for>> At nearly 1.3 tonnes, i simply cant see how its "moved the game on".

IMO the game hasnt been moved on at all, in terms of actual driver appeal. Some of the older hot hatches are still some of the best. The only way the 197 moves the game on is in size and safety (and price). Nothing else. In some peoples opinion it may handle better, but theres other cars that...

Looking beyond "pub talk" acceleration figures, I'd hazard a guess the 197 is probably better to drive than the 225.