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16v variouse information



  Clio Williams2


Im looking for a phase 2 16v clio and would be gratefull of some advice:

Will a 16v clio definately be a phase 2 if registered after march 93? Are there early phase 2s or late phase 1s?

How important is milleage? What differences might i notice between a car thats done say 110 k miles and one thats done 60k miles?

Im guesing the blue carpets Ive seen in some of the gallery pics arent standard (look mint)?

Any general advice on problems uve had with a valver which i should look out for? (My RT and my mums R reg 1.2 when pretty new both had leaking sunroofs replaced)

Wongys 96 N 16v in Monaco blue - very nice, wanna sell it?:)
 


no mines a 1994 phase 1, it was mid way through 94 they changed

not very important if its been looked after mines on 114000 and always produces high power compared to others

blue carpets?? williams i think? or not standard

sunroofs as always, dont get one with rust on rear arch. otherwise they r expensive to maintain and can really piss u off when it all goes wrong at once but when u drive em u see y u wanna keep it, always a HUGE smile!

and wongys is for sale
 
  Clio Williams2


Yeah my RT has that rusty arch problem, I got a quote to replace the arch last year £250.

Ill see if wongy lives any where near me and of course if i can afford! cheers.
 


embro

dont be put off by the stage 2, most people in this club who have had the same done keep it quiet on the insurance front,

what they cant see, they wont know

u cant tell by looking at it on the outside that its had so much work

mine will be for sale in about a months time,fully modded ready to cuise for the summer

wongy
 


Ive got a rare June 1994 L-reg Phase2 16v. Most Phase2s are M-reg or later as most people waited until the new plate in August before getting their Phase2s I guess. If its March 1993, then its definitely a Phase1. If you prefer the look of the Phase2, a Phase1 can easily be converted with the grille bar, side strips, boot strip and rear lights. Most people seem to prefer the Phase1 mirrors though (more angular).

Id say mileage is obviously important, like a car with 30k on the clock will be more desireable - but as soon as they hit 60k, they all seem to start having the problems, so often a cared for car on way over 100k miles will be more reliable and have all the jobs done. 60-85k was the expensive time with my car. Now its as sweet as on 100k. Its better to have some cash left over when you buy a 16v, just in case it needs anything doing.

My Valver also has the equivalent of stage 2 tuning, and you cant tell at all unless you take the engine apart. Looks and sounds the same as a standard car with an exhaust. The insurance company would never know. Same deal with the 2.0 bottom end - would take an expert to spot it and you could plead ignorance as you would have bought it second-hand anyway.

Ive got a massive buyers guide I typed up once, so I can post that again if you like, but dont want to clog up the thread unless you want it!
 
  20VT Clio & 9-5 HOT


i have stage 2 and unless they strip the engine completely they wont know about it...and its faster!
 
  Clio Williams2


Thanks alot for the info every1, this is a friendly community uve got!

nice 1 Ben H, that buyers guide sounds good, If its too large too post could you email it me: mailto:goodpete.hembrow@btinternet.com">pete.hembrow@btinternet.com

I need all the help I can get, I wanted a black RT a year ago so desperately that I ended up buying one from autotrader without lookin at any others!

I nearly made the same mistake today. Theres an N reg in the trader a good 1 1/2 hour drive away, 67k miles, wine red, dealer wants £4k for it will trade mine for next to nothin . I was so close to going down and puttin on a deposit (not got my cash yet), planned root, filled up with petrol, then changed my mind. If it was blue i probably would have got it though if he nocked the price down a bit.

If u wanna see the clio its here: http://3counties.easynet.autolocate.co.uk/usedcar/search/default.asphttp://3counties.easynet.autolocate.co.uk/usedcar/search/default.asp?

I cant get the proper link, itll be obviouse how to find it though.



Cheers
 


OK - YOU ASKED FOR IT!!!

Ill turn this into a proper guide one day with photos!

Apart from blue, theres no obvious colour choice and there is a variety of rare and desireable colours to be had - including the mega-rare Tungsten Grey and Green (Phase1 only) and Xerus Grey (Phase2).

Id print this off if I were you!

Read the 1994 Cars & Car Conversions article on the Williams on the main Cliosport site (under articles!). That outlines the Group A pedigree of the 16v - and its later homologated special edition: the Williams.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_b/286000-286999/286766_3_full.jpg

Despite this greatness, theyre expensive and time consuming cars - though not because there are any inherrent faults. Cared for cars will last very well, but those that have been repaired cheaply/not at all will cause problems. Basically, you may be in deep water outside of buying from an enthusiast - youll find the odd sunken treasure, but also a lot of monsters. Many people buy a 16v, realise they need to be loved and then sell them on with problems.

I bought what looked like a really nice example, with engine mods and leather. Despite a new engine, clutch, brakes and sound bodywork, Ive spent the best part of my spare time and money over the past two years replacing practically everything on this car.

But they look beautiful (especially with no exterior mods), make possibly the best 4-cylinder production engine induction roar and are damn fast. Oh - and theyre only Group 12 insurance too.

Prices amongst enthusiasts depend on condition - not age or mileage (though an extremely low mileage/young example will make extra).

The leather is well worth it, as I know - but it will add about £500 to the price. Phase2 is the spec to go for if you can: its build as much as looks. Ive got an early Phase2 (on a very late L-reg) and the doors shut with much more of a good thud than my flatmates Phase1; meanwhile, Ivegota16vs late N-reg doors close with more of a good thud than mine! (not that doors = total build of the car of course!).

The world of buying a 16v is full of perils and gems. The pricing is totally unfathomable. Throw your price guide in the bin and buy on condition. Youll see the odd 16v at £1500, but you wont be getting a premium example for that, mark my words! On the other hand, there are some real sh*tters for £4k.

I would avoid cars with big wheels (owners ask more and theyre hard on suspension/bearings) and wouldnt worry too much about high miles if the bils are there. There will be loads of cars with 60-70k miles on the market for good reason: its a very expensive mileage. If you pick up a car for a good price with 100k miles plus, it will probably give you less big bills (already done), but more annoying little jobs.

Overall, Im of the opinion that 16v owners are of the demographic that look after their cars well - enthusiasts. However, the cars are fairly maintenace-intensive, so, as ever, the care it has received thus far will usually dictate condition. Look for a big folder of bills.

What you should then be looking for then can be split into categories:

Exterior:

- Rear arch lips are susceptible to rusting, front ones are plastic so arent a problem. Rust also possible on door bottoms, around window rear quarters and boot bottom. Rear arches are now only available as an entire quarter panel - £330 from Renault inc VAT each side - so make for an expensive repair. Other body panels are surprisingly reasonable after a recent price cut.

- Front fogs (expensive) are prone to cracking due to stone chips.

- Bonnet and front bumper also prone to stone chips.

Mechanical:

N.B. due to engine size, many otherwise simple jobs on 16v/Willy are engine-out jobs.

- Cambelts must have been done before 72k (many advise a cambelt change far earlier); fairly big bill in itself and mega bill if it snaps in service.

- Diffs, gbox and clutch are all expensive jobs so check carefully. Jump off the accelerator in 2nd to see if it pops out of gear: if so, then suspect the box or the "dog bone" engine-to-subframe engine mount.

- Rear brake callipers can seize. New rear discs also necessitates new wheel bearings.

- Check aftermarket exhaust mountings - often a poor fit; rumbling under load can be caused by poor exhaust manifold to downpipe gasket (cheap job, disturbing noise).

- Erratic idle commonly due to faulty throttle potentionometer or idle speed control valve (respectively a specialist job and a straight swap).

- 16v/Willy run hot, so check coolant system - hoses, rad, expansion tank, water pump, anti-percolation (if you can). Radweld works wonders with minor radiator leaks.

- Engine mounts often go - embarassing and expensive to have your engine fall out, so see if engine rocks back and forth by opening bonnet and pulling accelerator cable.

- If car has induction kit check security of air hoses - can explain erratic idle or apparent air leak.

- Steering racks and columns are common failures. The handling reaction will be a second or two behind steering input in such a case; car will also tramline and follow road too much.

- Check for snapped front springs.

- CV gaiters should be checked - manifested by clicking noise on full lock.

- Handbrake is normally not good.

- If lowered, will need new front strut top mounts sooner or later. If majorly lowered, check to see that brake pressure-regulating control valve has been adjusted at the rear - otherwise the back wheels will lock too easily. Lowering also places extra strain on front anti-roll bar mountings and bushes and the track rod ends.

Interior:

- Sunroofs leak - tough luck!

- Electric window and mirror switches are very expensive - so check them too.

- Front seat belt reels often become ineffective - especially the drivers one.

- Door handle rods in door mechanism can come loose, so that the handle wont work. A time-consuming but easy job.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_b/286000-286999/286766_15_full.jpg
 


Cheers ;)

Once my Masters exams are over Ill make it bigger and better and might see if Jas wants one for the main site for people to print off, as the current buyers guide isnt 16v-specific. Seems to be loads of people after 16vs these days.
 
  1995 Mondeo Speed Machine


Really useful Ben. Im hoping to get a valver in a few months time, I think Ill have to print this off and use as a check list against any potential cars that I find. BTW the car in the black & white pic looks gangsta with that super wide kit on!

Rick
 


Thats the Maxi Clio. Renault ran it in Group A rallying with the 16v then Willy engine. Cleaned up the tarmac courses completely. Was faster than all the 4WD turbo nutters on the tarmac. Thats why, some say, the NA maximum category is now 1600cc (Super 1600s).
 
  clio williams, Ph1 172


WE must be lucky Aaron hehe. I think its the ones with the bad roof creases that leak. I got mine fixed by the way :D. It wasnt bad though like some of them ive seen. It never leaked though. Mines a 93 phase 1 too.
 
  Was a Clio 1.8 16v


Embro; i always see some nice 1s on Auto-trader, jus get 1 which has been looked after and had money spent on it if its pushing 80k as gearboxs, clutchs, etc, seem to fook up around then. Good luck, Mikey.
 
  Clio Williams2


Very helpfull! cheers all, esp BenH.

my sun roof dont leak any more since i spent £300 on a new one!

- Rear arches are now only available as an entire quarter panel - £330 from Renault inc VAT each side.

- might find this place handy: rear arch £32 (although a body shop quoted me £250 to get done)http://www.bodyshopwarehouse.co.uk/default.asp?go=1&shop=4&dep=48&cat=&prodidhttp://www.bodyshopwarehouse.co.uk/default.asp?go=1&shop=4&dep=48&cat=&prodid=

Engine mounts often go - embarassing and expensive to have your engine fall out, so see if engine rocks back and forth by opening bonnet and pulling accelerator cable. Isnt this supposed to happen instead of engine bay ripping apart? otherwise you wouldnt need rubber engine mounts....apart from vibration i supose.

- Front seat belt reels often become ineffective - especially the drivers one. Scary!

Ive got my eye on an M reg in blue 91 000 miles FSH cambelt etc advertised at £3200 (private) but its been for sale for a while. also SS exhaust, 17" alloys (i would prefer standards), K&N induction. sound reasonable to you? Ive not looked at it yet, hoping it will still be around when my cash eventually clears.

Cheers, Pete.
 


With regard to the seat belt - its just the reel mechanism that goes; the operation of the belt is fine (not that Ive had cause to test it!!).

£3200 seems reasonable for a Phase2, but just make sure its a good un. Maybe get a 16v owner to go with you to have a look at any car youre interested in.

The price on that website seems to apply only to non-16v arches. Remember that the 16v/Willy have flared rear panels too. I hear you could get the normal parts to fit if its below the arch waistline. Otherwise its a Renault-only part at £330 for the entire 16v/Willy rear panel (they used to do sections, but not any more).
 


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