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172/182 - DCi parts comparison.... help needed



Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
I am currently working away from home during the week and upon leaving yesterday i could hear the usual Wheel bearing noise when they decide to go, with the thought of doing another 200 miles on it before i could ge it looked at i turned around, switched cars and got the gf to take it to a local garage today.....

the garage got in contact and confirmed that my NSR wheel bearing was on its way, but wasn't too bad... however they looked over the car and then gave me a nice list of issues, none of which i was aware of even though i drive the car regularly, there was no siign to me of any potential problems, no vibrations, knocks excessive play etc etc... so, the list...

  • 2 rear tyres boarder line legal (i knew they were close, i switched front and rears to get as much life as possible, they have lasted f*ck all time, dam budgets)
  • NSF coil spring is different and wrong to other side, (i had a front coil spring fitted last year, i assumed he had done both, but it appears only one and the wrong time, i need to know whether the DCi has 4 or 5 rings in the srping now)
  • OSF suspension strut leaking
  • NSR suspension strut leaking
  • Play in both track rod ends
  • engine stabliser (dogbone mount???) collapsed
the garage want £585.28 all inc
to me that seems very steep and i am not confirming to anything yet.

I first need to investigate what the previous mechanic had done when he changed the springs at the front, i then need to work out if this has effected/caused any of the other issues. If so i need to have words i think.

Secondly i need to get the work done anyways, so i have a few options....

  1. Pay £585.28 for the garage to do it (would be alot easier as i am not home all week and struggle for time on weekends)
  2. Gray kindly researched whilst i was out and got a price of £126 for all parts bar tyres and springs, so i order these and MAKE time at some point asap, then sort tyres and spring seperately
  3. look at 172 parts, i know of a 172 that should be getting broken shortly, i can probably replace as much as i want / need still cheaper, including tyres (would replace wheels at same time), but i would need to know what parts can change over and what can't. Any ideas?
any help / knowledge of any of the above greatly welcome...
 
  DCI100
Track rod ends, and all suspension, can be done you're self within and hour or two at most. With help from someone here (where are you)

If you're worried about cost, use aftermarket parts. That will save a lot of money. If you need a hand, let me know and ill see if I can help. If you're not to far :)

Front springs shouldn't cost.much 172 springs should be fine. I have 172 lowering apex springs on my dci
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Track rod ends, and all suspension, can be done you're self within and hour or two at most. With help from someone here (where are you)
If you're worried about cost, use aftermarket parts. That will save a lot of money. If you need a hand, let me know and ill see if I can help. If you're not to far :)
Front springs shouldn't cost.much 172 springs should be fine. I have 172 lowering apex springs on my dci

cheers for the reply owen,
I am thinking it may be best to change over all shocks and springs as i have the 2 leaking dampers/struts, so that would be all front suspension and rear dampers (dependent on what i can get),i take it the struts/dampers are not inter-changable for the 172/182 and the DCi?
thanks for the offer on help, funnily enough, the place i work during the week is up here just north of Milton Keynes, the car is currently down in somerset though (where home is), where abouts are you?
 
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Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
after speaking to my previous mechanic, he explained that the springs didn't need to be the same as such, (i.e. the springs do not need the same amount of coils, unlike what the other mechanics said).

just because it has less coils doesn't mean its not right, the spring could have a different rating to suit and or the spring could be thicker etc, along as it works out with the apposing side its ok, he also said i would notice the sag on one side if its wrong (which i am 100% sure i would), i haven't noticed this so am unsure where i am on it tbh....
 

Dr HMS Derv Destroyer

ClioSport Club Member
  MK1DTi/DS3/vivaro
you are correct on the spring ratio. that first mechy sounds like a bismal novice. second one knows what he is talking about.

now parts wise, you can go through west renault on here, eurocarparts or if a 172 wide track is being broke, you could possible do a wide track conversion like west renault also did to his 80.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
you are correct on the spring ratio. that first mechy sounds like a bismal novice. second one knows what he is talking about.
now parts wise, you can go through west renault on here, eurocarparts or if a 172 wide track is being broke, you could possible do a wide track conversion like west renault also did to his 80.

its awkward trying to sort the car from 100miles away.
with this information i can possibly cross the new spring off my list leaving me with...



  • 2 rear tyres boarder line legal
  • OSF suspension strut leaking
  • NSR suspension strut leaking
  • Play in both track rod ends
  • engine stabliser (dogbone mount???) collapsed
  • NSR wheel bearing

i will get the tyres sorted asap and then look into the other things, i am unsure if it is of any benefit going wide track from a 172, does anyone know what i would need? i.e. would i need the whole running gear set-up? shocks, springs, subframe, tie rods, driveshafts, etc etc etc???
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
so tyres should be with me today hopefully, £80 for 4x nearly new Pirelli P600's, we will see there,

back to the other issues,
after checking through my history it appears the car has had 3 new front springs since 2007 (various sides), seems like a common problem with this car,

thinking fitting a 172 front end may be the best to elevate the spring problem but will also sort the various other issues on the car
 
  340i
So what do we actually need to convert a DCI to a PH-1 172 wide track / running gear?...

From looking around I think you will need:

172 subframe, wishbones, drive shafts, hubs and you may aswell fit the 172 front brakes.. upgrade FTW.

You fit the DCi steering rack to the 172 subframe, so I am not sure which TRE's you would use.
 
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  340i
Yeah from Wests and a bit more reading..

Rear 172 suspension will bolt straight on.

You need 172 hubs to run 172 brakes and vice versa.

Does your DCi have ABS?
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
but i don't need to fit the brakes... hence possibly no reason to fit the hubs unless there is any other reason the hubs need to be changed...
 
  172/1.2/E30
1*2 hubs only fit with 1*2 driveshafts. 1*2 brakes only fit with 1*2 hubs afaik. If you want to widetrack a dci/non sport you'll need: subframe, track rods from a 1*2, wishbones, hubs, driveshafts, brakes, struts.
 
  340i
1*2 hubs only fit with 1*2 driveshafts. 1*2 brakes only fit with 1*2 hubs afaik. If you want to widetrack a dci/non sport you'll need: subframe, track rods from a 1*2, wishbones, hubs, driveshafts, brakes, struts.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

It's all the 172 parts or nothing at all.

I reckon you should buy a new set of 172 TRE's and possibly ball joints for the price, then we know everything is fresh / tight :)
 
  172/1.2/E30
Pretty much what I was thinking.

It's all the 172 parts or nothing at all.

I reckon you should buy a new set of 172 TRE's and possibly ball joints for the price, then we know everything is fresh / tight :)

Dealership only, aftermarket ones are always too short.
 
  Clio dci
Hi all
had a chat with west a while back when I had most of the 172 parts to just confirm if I was on the right track.
Came up with a definate list list of parts for the front end on a 65 dci

List is

172 struts
172 hubs
172 discs
172 calipers
172 wish bones
172 drive shafts
172 abr

Was advised the subframe is not needed as only difference is the 4th gear box mount hole.
Also track rod ends are not needed as is enough thread left.
Will need to get the tracking done as will be out by 5 degrees

Rear 172 axle will fit straight on but be propaired to sorce different hand brake cables or make up a longer adjuster.
Also abs light will most likely come on. Have no cure for this yet as running a broken abs ring a moment.

Hope this helps
kev
 
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  340i
looking at sorting this this week,
may order some new bits too,

i am really surprised you NEED to change all the brakes over too,

DCi calipers will be smaller than the 172 items, therefore they will not fit on the 172 hubs (larger bolt spacing) and I assume this goes for the hubs / driveshaft size differences.

Assuming Bombers brakes are in good condition that's an added bonus of the conversion? ;)

But we'll also have to bleed through the brakes when we swap the calipers over... So may be worth ordering brake fluid when you get the TRE's / balljoints.

Does the DCi have ABS, I assume it does?
 
  Qashcow
^ what he says

172 struts got
172 hubs got
172 discs good nick
172 calipers look alright
172 wish bones yep, the car has those
172 drive shafts look alright and didnt make any noises on the trip home
172 abr already got one of these in the garage for us

If we are doing this, i can just unbolt the wishbones and drop the whole lot off my car hopefully.

Just need some DOT4 fluid
 
  340i
Easy peasy... :)

The only thing we may struggle with is undoing / removing / swapping over the ARB on Neils car, I am not sure if you can remove them without dropping the subframe?
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
so my original issues followed by the plan...?

  • 2 rear tyres boarder line legal >>> sorted with new 172 wheels and tyres
  • NSF coil spring is different and wrong to other side, >>> 172 struts and springs
  • OSF suspension strut leaking >>> 172 struts and springs
  • NSR suspension strut leaking >>> 172 struts and springs
  • Play in both track rod ends >>> order from GSF along with 172 ball joints
  • engine stabliser (dogbone mount???) collapsed >>> order from GSF
  • NSR wheel bearing >>> get sorted separately

also order Dot4 brake fluid from GSF

Easy peasy... :)
The only thing we may struggle with is undoing / removing / swapping over the ARB on Neils car, I am not sure if you can remove them without dropping the subframe?


Pretty sure the whole lot needs to be dropped mate after dropping my 172 one,
 
  340i
I think you've covered all the bases there... Bring on the weekend!

If we didn't need to fit the 172 subframe we wouldn't need to drop your DCi subframe, hence the ARB being more difficult to fit.

I think it would be easier just doing the whole lot, then we know it's correct and full 172 spec.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
I think you've covered all the bases there... Bring on the weekend!

If we didn't need to fit the 172 subframe we wouldn't need to drop your DCi subframe, hence the ARB being more difficult to fit.

I think it would be easier just doing the whole lot, then we know it's correct and full 172 spec.

you mean inc the subframe?
if thats the case i think the 4th engine mount comes into play...
 
  340i
you mean inc the subframe?
if thats the case i think the 4th engine mount comes into play...

Yeah, would be a bonus if the 4th mount fitted to your gearbox but I don't know if it has the holes / capacity to do so... or, if it doesn't have one already? hmmmm
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Yeah, would be a bonus if the 4th mount fitted to your gearbox but I don't know if it has the holes / capacity to do so... or, if it doesn't have one already? hmmmm

see below

Hi all
Was advised the subframe is not needed as only difference is the 4th gear box mount hole.
Also track rod ends are not needed as is enough thread left.
Will need to get the tracking done as will be out by 5 degrees

pretty sure that is the mount the garage had said had collapsed, i had a look underneath (only a quick look) and it didn't seem too bad, i could be totally wrong though
 
  340i
The 4th mount sits at the front of the gearbox and bolts to the subframe via a plate on the gearbox.

Ok after some searching... subframe dimensions are the same, but the RS subframe is double skinned in places and has the 4th mounting hole for the lower box mount.

So your DCi does not have a 4th engine mount, but we could fit it :)
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
The 4th mount sits at the front of the gearbox and bolts to the subframe via a plate on the gearbox.

Ok after some searching... subframe dimensions are the same, but the RS subframe is double skinned in places and has the 4th mounting hole for the lower box mount.

So your DCi does not have a 4th engine mount, but we could fit it :)


god dam you are efficient mr Gray.....
right, well i was looking at the dog bone mount at the rear (so totally the wrong place), but this looked ok..... (from what i could see), so i am unsure what the garage was on about when they said about one that had collapsed, either way there is a fair bit of movement (don't think its one of the main mounts....
 
  Clio dci
If you want to push the boat out on the sub frame, then go for the 182 as believe this has different mounting points for the wish bones.
Moving the location forward in turn increasing the wheel base. Please check before doing this as
I havent done this myself but did read it some where.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
If you want to push the boat out on the sub frame, then go for the 182 as believe this has different mounting points for the wish bones.
Moving the location forward in turn increasing the wheel base. Please check before doing this as
I havent done this myself but did read it some where.

we have a phase 1 1712 as a donar car so that won't be happening...lol
cheers though
 
  340i
WTF did you guys who have completed this conversion done with the ABS sensors???!!

The connectors from ph-1 172 sensor to the DCi look are not compatible?
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
WTF did you guys who have completed this conversion done with the ABS sensors???!!
The connectors from ph-1 172 sensor to the DCi look are not compatible?

as Gray said, the dci runs a male connector out of the calliper and a female from the loom side,
the 172 calliper runs a female connector out of the calliper

so once the conversion was done we had 2 female connectors. we switched the connectors on one side but we have still got an ABS/SERV light on.......... (running without ABS - cup spec DCi)
 
  172 Flamer, BMW E46
sorry to dig this up guys, but any idea if the driveshafts from a 1.2 1999 5 door will fit 172 hubs? thanks
 


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