172 Camber,advise required please!

[Aaronjr01]

I've searched and found a few threads that were helpful but its still hard to know as the set-up is specific to each car :S

I have a ph2 172 cup, currently lowered on eibachs at the rear(30mmish) and 50mm at the front.Tyres are 205/45. No scrubbing or anything of that nature. However I recently purchased Vmaxx coilovers off the forum and want to lower the car(nose down look) as low as it can go and still get over speed bumps(don't judge me ).

From what I have gathered the car already has camber from the factory, and that some coilovers have camber built into them. So I guess my question is, before I install the coilovers should I invest in camber shims/bolts to save me needing to change to a lower profile tyre?And if so can anybody recommend how much(additional) camber should I add?

Sorry for the essay, I'll upload pictures of the current set-up after work if it helps.

Thanks,Aaron

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you want it to look like some scene kids vw (have fashions been slow reaching your part of the world, it was all done here last decade) then fit the camber bolts and just set them to as much camber as possible. Will obviously make it handle badly but so will bein that low so I guess that's not an issue.

 

[The Dominator]

Out of interest chip, what is the max you can get away lowering a car before it starts to affect the handling? or is dependant on the suspension you are using?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Out of interest chip, what is the max you can get away lowering a car before it starts to affect the handling? or is dependant on the suspension you are using?

Normally the point that the front wishbones go past horizontal is the point you need to start getting nervous, but it is very much vehicle dependant as location of the steering arm relative to the wishbone etc has a big effect.

 

[The Dominator]

Ah I see, only ask as alot of coilovers say for instance lowers car by 15mm to say 40mm but in fact the coilover can actually drop the car 60mm wondered if this is the guidline as to what they recommend is your max on lowering even tho they are capable of more, fitting a set of spax to my 182 and was thinking 35mm to 40mm

(spax rsx)

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ah I see, only ask as alot of coilovers say for instance lowers car by 15mm to say 40mm but in fact the coilover can actually drop the car 60mm wondered if this is the guidline as to what they recommend is your max on lowering even tho they are capable of more, fitting a set of spax to my 182 and was thinking 35mm to 40mm

(spax rsx)

That is more likely to be to do with the fact that if you lower a car too far there will no longer be enough travel for the spring and damper to still work without you going to a firmer version, the less travel you have the more aggressive damping you need.

 

[The Dominator]

I see cheers chip.

 

[Aaronjr01]

Thanks Chip, so you reckon the Eibach camber bolts(1.5 degree i think they go to) should do the trick?Also can I have your car?

 

[Chip-mk1]

They will help you gain more camber mate yes.

I personally think you are ruining your car not improving it though, but thats a different discussion of course, but no you cant have any of my cars, you'd probably given them "mad lows" too and ruin them as well, lol

 

[...]

But those touring cars run super low ... surely being really low will help round roundabout no end ?

 

[Chip-mk1]

But those touring cars run super low ... surely being really low will help round roundabout no end ?

I assume you are joking, but will answer anyway just in case others are genuinely interested who find the thread in the future etc...

Being low is great for centre of gravity which is why touring cars do it, but they have drastically altered suspension pickup points in order to not cause the chaos to suspension geometry that you would get at the same height if you just fitted shorter shocks and springs to the standard setup.

 

[...]

yes it was tongue in cheek , there are so many things to consider with suspension setups ,and as you rightly point out slamming a car is useless in most cases.

how have you got on with the increased caster ? i assume it heavier to drive(if no power steering) but is it now picking up the rear more and improving turn in on low speed corners? be interested to see if a stiffer front ARB coupled with the increased camber works too (in the dry )

 

[Aaronjr01]

They will help you gain more camber mate yes.

I personally think you are ruining your car not improving it though, but thats a different discussion of course, but no you cant have any of my cars, you'd probably given them "mad lows" too and ruin them as well, lol

Haha, I understand why you think I am ruining it. And from a handling point of view I agree, however I would'nt use the word ruin as I can return to the KONI+Eibach set-up anytime. Lets say ..hmm..unimproving But I am a fan of a nice low, wide stance I wont deny!

Can I just say though, that unless you are running on top top notch tyres lowering won't make much of a difference as tyres are usually the weak link?Please correct me if I am undoubtedly wrong I have on Toyo Proxys

 

[Chip-mk1]

Harv, I much prefer the feel of the car but I can't tell you in terms of lap times as I haven't done scientific back to back testing.
Certainly feels more keen to turn in now, but hasn't ended up too oversteery either.

i run pas still so weight of steering not an issue but when I had a failed pas pipe I was glad I'm a big lad. Lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

Aaron I would kind of say the opposite , that a really sticky tyre can mask suspension problems and a less grippy one can really make you notice them as the grip limits are so much easier to find.

 

[Aaronjr01]

Aaron I would kind of say the opposite , that a really sticky tyre can mask suspension problems and a less grippy one can really make you notice them as the grip limits are so much easier to find.

Very true, but I think what I'm more trying to say is: because I'm running on tyres that are nothing special, if I lower my car more it wont really affect the handling to the point that an average driver like myself would ever notice. If anything to me, it will probably feel like it sticks to the road more and in my head seem improved.

However, I have never been on a track day and very rarely push the car around corners so I also don't know what I'm talking about in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you just want to cruise around slowly looking at schoolgirls, im sure it will be fine, just dont take it on track

 

[Cupman29]

You will also go through tyres like they are going out of fashion!

 

[Aaronjr01]

If you just want to cruise around slowly looking at schoolgirls, im sure it will be fine, just dont take it on track

Haha, advice noted

 

[Sam@NP]

Out of interest chip, what is the max you can get away lowering a car before it starts to affect the handling? or is dependant on the suspension you are using?

Dependent on things like roll centers, roll rates, CoG etc.

Its all about vehicle dynamics, a subject so big people do PhDs in it. Billy Bob and his keyboard hasn't really got a clue.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dependent on things like roll centers, roll rates, CoG etc.

Its all about vehicle dynamics, a subject so big people do PhDs in it. Billy Bob and his keyboard hasn't really got a clue.

Exactly, every car is different.