172 Cup MOT failure - HELP

[Bezza4]

The car has had its MOT this afternoon, and failed.

Firstly on the number plates, which I knew would happen, but that is not a problem, got the legal ones to put on.

Secondly, the exhaust is blowing, and failing on emissions as a result.

Thirdly, and the one I need all of your help on, is the rear brakes. These are supposedly reading as having 0% efficency. So in other words I haven't got any back brakes. My uncle, who is the service manager at the garage is saying about the rear compensator valve. But I didn't think the cup had one of these? I have told him this, and he says there is one there, but it has got a screw missing?? I have no idea about the mechanics of a car, so I need peoples help on what it could be. If the cup hasn't got a compensator valve, it's obviously not that causing my back brakes not to work, so what else could it be?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[Dan@SJM]

they do have a compensator, but not to the rear axle, end result, is little or no braking.How ever i dont know how to sort it!

where is the exhaust blowing, try some gungum!

and well change the plates!

 

[Bezza4]

I'm going to pick it up now, so I'l find out where the exhaust is blowing from.

Well there has got to be some kind of rear braking, else why put discs and pads there. For what ever reason there is nothing happening back there at the moment. Just need to figure out why.

 

[MATT BLACK]

Read my posts

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3001

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/commu...603&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=clio,172,fail,MOT

 

[Bezza4]

The rear box has got a hole in it I think, which is why the exhaust is blowing. They have said I need a no rear box.

They are not 100% sure as to why the rear brakes aren't really working. As I have confused matters by saying the 172 cup doesn't have a rear compensator valve.

Anyone got any ideas??

 

[Bezza4]

Read my posts

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3001

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/commu...603&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=clio,172,fail,MOT

Thanks Matt.

It makes a little sense to me, but not enough to try and explain it to the garage. I will send the link to my uncle, see if they can make sense of it.

Supposedly you need to get 50% of what ever from the brakes to pass, and I have only got a total of 51%, with the rear brakes giving 0%. It failed. I have got performance friction pads on the front, which won't help, as they won't do a lot til hot. But surely I should be getting something from the back? Your links suggest not. It just doesn't seem right that the back does nothing. I have never been over happy with the braking performance of the car. Could Fred's comments have any truth, that the callipers could be out of sync?

 

[Bezza4]

:bump:

Anyone else got anymore suggestions?

 

[Dave.]

dunno but i know i drew a line on my rear discs three days ago with a cd marker pen, and its still there, mine obviously aint working, but my first mot was only 6 weeks ago......

 

[Bezza4]

Going to ring Renault UK and see what they say. Spoken to Fred, and he says that practically every 172 cup that he knows of has failed its MOT because of it. Surely that can not be right. An MOT has general rules for all cars, these rules are there to measure whether a car is safe to be on the road or not, and a 3 year old car is failing on brakes. How do the old cars that look like they are going to fall apart next time they reach a corner, pass there MOT's?

 

[Phill1978]

Going to ring Renault UK and see what they say. Spoken to Fred, and he says that practically every 172 cup that he knows of has failed its MOT because of it. Surely that can not be right. An MOT has general rules for all cars, these rules are there to measure whether a car is safe to be on the road or not, and a 3 year old car is failing on brakes. How do the old cars that look like they are going to fall apart next time they reach a corner, pass there MOT's?

because there not passed at reputable testers and as a result if found out will mean they lose their trading licence but there out there for sure

 

[Bezza4]

Well if all 172 cups are failing their MOT's, surely they shouldn't be on the road either. Surely it is a serious issue that the rear brakes aren't doing anything, and to the extent where they are failing what is basically a safety test.

 

[almaghrbi]

I came across this before. There is valve at the back and you can increase the pressure on it to make it work better. The car is designed to give 10% rear braking only (they did this because of lack of ABS on the Cup). Mark Fish made a kit for me and it worked.

From memory, the valve is close to the rear axle on the left hand side of the car.

 

[rob172cup]

wtf?so my rear brakes dont do f**k all? how come my pads where fucked after 18000 miles? the fronts lasted 15000

 

[Bezza4]

wtf?so my rear brakes dont do f**k all? how come my pads where f**ked after 18000 miles? the fronts lasted 15000

Sounds like yours are working then.

Ive done nearly 30K in mine, since I bought it with 15K on the clock, and haven't had to change my rears yet. I don't know if the previous owner did.

 

[Bezza4]

Just spoken to Renault UK, and they have said that I have got to take it in to a Renault Dealer to look at, and get them to look at whether it is a manufacuting issue, or whether it is down to wear and tear.

We all know it's not down to wear and tear, as it's a problem with most 172 cups by the sounds of it. The person who I had spoken to did not know anything about this problem. So it sounds like it could be more expense, as the cars warranty finished 2 weeks ago.

 

[Bezza4]

**UPDATE**

Took the car in to a Renault dealer today, as requested by Renault UK. The conclusion was, that the reason my rear brakes are doing very little, if anything, is because the spring is missing from the rear compensator. Or as they also described it, the load valve (part number 7200248119).

Is this what is meant to be missing from the Cup, or should I have one? They said cars without ABS have it, cars with ABS do not. Is this correct?

I have been speaking to J3ned. I am waiting for him to get back to me, but he said this valve is to adjust the headlights when there is more weight in the back. If this is the case, what has it got to do with my rear brakes not working? The car did not fail its MOT cos there was a valve missing, it failed cos the rear brakes weren't working.

If the above part is what I need it will cost £77.29 + VAT. Which, if it is what I need, will have to fork out, as they have said they will not contribute, cos I have different brake lines on the back. Great.

 

[16v_jon]

cup's dont have this linkage on the rear beam, the only clio's that do are the 1.2 8v without abs its a brake bias compensator. fred told me that the cups bias is set from the factory and cannot be adjusted

 

[Friction]

i thought cups didnt have brake compensators? or headlight levelling for that matter (as they dont have xenons)

look for the valve (two brake pipes in, two out) over the rear beam, there shouldnt be one, so no 'spring' to go missing... i'm sure the brake bias is fixed, which contributes to making them a bit more lethal!

 

[maddernj]

They don't have this, My dealer tried to fit the same thing. I am having the same issues at the moment. I need to take the car in for a Re-Test but see no point till i have a letter from Renault explaining that the car does not have this part. I spoke to Renault yesterday and explained to them i need a letter, They told me to take it to a Dealer. I said no as the dealer is a fool and that i have already spoke to the VSOA office in Reading (Another long story) and that they have comfimed that it does not have this part. The VSOA office also confirmed that they have sent a leter to Head Office for this to be sent out to all testing stations. I then phoned the MOT helpline to find out if they had any record but there computer said "no". The long and short of this is that VSOA head office know about it but have not filtered this information down via an updated fact sheet. Renault UK have told me that they are speaking to there technical department and that they will send me a letter out when this has been done, But customer services can only spek to them via email so it may take a week to get an answer. Which leave's me waiting and p1ssed off.

 

[Bezza4]

maddernj, its all well and good having a letter explaining the car doesn't have this part, but is your car failing cos the part is missing, or cos the rear brakes don't do anything. Mine isn't failing due to the fact the part is missing, its failing cos the rear brakes have 0% efficiency.

 

[maddernj]

Ahh sorry I got a little lost. No I was failed due to it missing, The brakes passed with 54%, But new pads and dot 4 will be going on before the re-test.