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172 Killer-Scooby or 20V Turbo



  320d M Sport


Ok.

My mates looking at getting either a Scooby or Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo. I reckon Id have a better chance of keeping with him if he went for the Scooby as the Fiat does 0-100 in about 14secs....:eek:. Am I dreaming......would I get anhialiated by both?

Paddy
 
  Williams 2, STi N12


Depends which scooby he went for, anything above the standard WRX and forget it, but even then you are praying that it is dry!
 
  320d M Sport


Well, hed be going for the Turbo (Sti???). I know some people here have (they claim) "Kept up".......:confused:

Paddy
 


As a Scooby nutter I reckon I can answer this one.

Scooby proper classic shape not one of the new bug eye things is quicker than Fiat to about 70mph then Fiat would catch up and v slowly edge ahead.

Both would get a lead on the Clio by about 4 - 5 car lengths to the ton (unless the scoob is not a UK std 208/215 bhp).

IN the twisties the scoob would eat the Clio and the Fiat alive in the hands of most drivers. While the new bug eye WRX is slightly slower in a straight line than the clio it would be much more composed and faster round the corners - but not as much fun in the process.
 
  Renault Laguna Coupe


There was a new Scooby at the last Bedford trackday - 02MY in blue - looked pretty damn presentable to me actually. Anyway it was pretty easy to stay with it on the track in a 172. I would have thought that the Fiat would be awesome... No??
 


fiat coupe 20v 1307kg 220bhp (171bhp/Ton) 0-60= 6.0 0-100=14.5 1/4 mile 14.6 top speed 155mph

best get some mods to keeo up with that, tim0172s 172 runs the 1/4 mile around the same time
 
  320d M Sport


Alright Matt,

Bloody nice cars or what? In standard form theyre awesome, you can get a minter for around £8500 upwards...grp 19 though...:(. Still I reckon Id get wasted more by the Fiat......time will tell!

Paddy
 


but......... a FIAT is still a FIAT........

Italian... five reverse gears...... and........

Scooby (They even have to think up a seemingly jazzy name cos SUBARU is sh*te)

Butt ugly projectile.. frequented by guys with small genitals..

:devilish:

apart from that m8..... stick with the real car...
 
  320d M Sport


No.

Cant see me being able to afford a Turbo conv so dont really know which way to go? to me Id rather spend money on that nifty traction control jobbie than hundreds on exhaust and induction? Dunno, whats best way to go?

Paddy
 


Just to complete

Scooby UK MY 99 0-60 5.4 0-100 14.6 bhp/ton 174

EVO VI 0-60 4.8 0-100 13.3 bhp/ton 199 (Forget your Autocar b*llsh*t modified times or drag strip surface times)

Scooby P1 0-60 4.7 0-100 13.1 bhp/ton 219
 


the scooby is like a hearse with a mopar lump in it... goes like sh*t but no one in their right mind would have one......

the evo is a toyota corolla with a big lump in. (and no finesse).... again, interesting.. but still a corolla....

sorta like sherry trifle made with whiskey.. ya like the first bite, but ya wouldnt want the whole cake due to sickness....

Cs.:)
 


10 get you a 97MY UK classic shape with 208bhp from a dealer. Or a STI 4 with 286bhp.

Bug eye imprezas start about 15k private from December 2000 onwards.

I agree that EVOs and Imprezas arent as quick in straight line as their 0-60 times would suggest. Get in a TVR and see what I mean. But they are v easy to drive round corners quick.
 
  BMW 320d Sport


Well Im one of the people whos kept up with a Scooby, an RB5 and my driveshaft was hanging out and the gearbox full of bearings! Mine is ever so slightly modded though. I would have thought I could overhaul a Scooby at any speed with the way my Clio is going at the moment.

But a Scooby is a nice solid motor, quick, looks nice, no wonder theyre popular - no mods required really. Fiat is more the connoisseurs choice Id say, much rarer and more stealth.
 
  320d M Sport


ahahah! The old STEALTH trick! Cant beat it, he used to have an Uno Turbo.....talk about stealth, that thing well flew...just hope a corner doesnt come up. I think hell probably go for the Fiat....

Paddy
 


My first post!

Build and design engines for a living, mainly diesels though.

Strongly agree with wilf, TVRs are stupidly quick even round bends if you got balls like church bells.

A lot of people are forgetting scooby and evo are all wheel drive and require a lot of shove to move off, get it right you get sub 5 seconds to 60, wrong and you smell clutch to the tune of 800 nicker.

172/cup is the truest to original hot hatch you will ever find, love em to bits problems and all, but im sorry, think fiat, think electrical, think ten times more unreliable than renault, youre still only half way there.............:D
 


i have been in and raced all the a standard UK WRX and also 20vT, the imprezza is the better car by far, and as a fore word, i hate the endless "not thaty quick" & "I held a ...." they are pointless comparisons where alot of the time the other bloke dosent know he is racing, but........

my mate has just got a 20v T, a nice one two, and much as i cringe while i type it, there wasnt that much in it when he was 2 up and my on my own, this was racing off round abouts on a ring road, so i guess we were talking 30-100 MPH, obviously his adavntage was greater as speed grew, but i think my example is a significant test as alot of the variable were eleminated, (bar passengers)

the point i am trying to make is i was expecting the fiat to make me look silly, and paper it really should have, but on that perticular day its didnt.

The WRX i went in felt quick (to the untrained passenger) because of the way the turbo delivers the power, but there really is no doudting its cornering ability, absolutly fantastic grip with poise and controll, great car.

and lastly i dont think a comparision with a P1 is a fair one as they are £20k.

and lastly, and as always, V8 TVRs are No.1, brute power, spine tingling noise, there is just nothing that will touch them, they are so differnt to any Jap electric cornering family saloon with a mad turbo engine, TVR chassis and entire engine was built with brute power in mind, they are a handfull but that what makes them fun.

TVR TVR TVR!!!!
 


i can answer this as my dad used to have a TVR Chimera 4.0 , Locust 7 kit car with rover V8, and his scooby bout 300 bhp..

well he still has the scooby so guess which was quickest of all...
 


wicked. cant beat that guttural dubba noise and transmission whine of the scooby, then the old IHI blower pipes up. A few WRC titles cant be wrong.

whoooosh, BANG!
 


Every car listed has its pros and cons, the fiat isnt the most reliable of cars but better than the 2ltr 16v turbo, could cost alot to keep in the long run though..

The Scoob is a good all rounder, grips very well (especially in the wet where it proves to be more sure footed) but not alot in it in the dry, also very quick but having a very restrictive exhaust it runs out of power after 100mph (but can get there in under 15secs)

I suppose if your playing with one of these cars on the road then it will depend on the driver, a scoob can and does make a bad driver look good, but only for a while as it bites alot harder than most cars if you dont know what your doing (and thus my insurance premium will go up again....)

The fiat is more well balanced in comparison, grips and handles well, quite rare and probably cost less to insure and run than a Subaru.

Tony.

PS, one word of warning, Prodrive have now released the Performance pack for the STi type UK, be warned that it does a low 12 secs to 100mph and 13.4 sec 1/4 mile (roughly based on an average) its also somewhat quicker in gear now (3 secs off 80-100mph in 6th!) so dont play
 


Just to clarify those STi7 PPP times, its acutally 60-80 where the car gains 3 secs over the original times and 12.20 0-100 time (13.44 1/4 time)



Tony
 


The standard scoob is 213hp ALL WHEEL DRIVE, it isnt in the same league as the fiat, which is a coupe and a torque steering ferrari wannabe.

Besides, EVOs John Barker posted a true 5 sec flat to 60 in a standard Impreza on a one way run. If your scooby goes flat after 100, i suggest you have the waste gate actuator checked, it has more than likely stuck or is leaking air.

And yes the 261hp mod for the sti uk is dangerous, see you at the crossroads!
 


Tech,

the standard uk classic shaped scoob and wrxs have a very restrictive exhaust, ive proved that a slightly modified car is quite a bit quicker than an unmodified one ;) but scoobs do slow down after 100mph (mine having a full decat and more free flowing exhaust system does not thou ;) )

The EVO run was a bit of a farce really, 0-100 in 13.9 secs and 5 secs to 60, what you have to read about that though is that it had just enough fuel in the tank and was on a very grippy surface (Santa Pod) so not really viable in real life....



Tony
 


the 4.5 TVR lump is the real animal, always should be in preference over the older 4.0 or 5.0, you will never change my mind, 4.5 Cerbra, astonishingly quick muscle car, who saw the old clarkson video where its went head to head with the best super cars avalible at the time, and it killed the lot of them by a good margin, (but not off the strart its worth noteing,)



the big blcakpool chiller is the performance bargain of the centuary
 


As an ex Fiat Coupe 20VT owner, I can safely say that they will pee all over a 172 on motor ways and A roads accelerating through the gears. From about 2500-3000rpm, there is a huge surge in acceleration that the Clio cannot match. However, on twistier B roads, the Clio will have the edge with it being lighter and nimbler.



Handling wise the Coupe understeers more than the Clio however traction out of tight bends slightly better due to its Viscous Coupling diff. Roundabouts are best taken in a slow in fast out driving style whereas Clio nose tends to grip better to maintain a near constant speed through the same bend. The Fiat does have a sting in its tail as the back end can snap out with no warning if you are going at high speed through a bend and lift off the throttle. But at normal speeds it will carry you round the bend but without the adjustability of the Clio.



The ride on the Fiat is quite harsh compared to the 172 and can feel crashy on poorly surfaced roads at low speeds but has more stability at high speeds than the Clio.



The 20V turbo enging is smooth revving to 7000rpm and sounds awesome at full chat but it has been known that some comsume oil at the rate of .5ltr every 1000miles, and few have suffered cracked manifolds which can be replace by Fiat free of charge. Cam belts needs to be changed at 72000 miles and it is an expensive (£1200) operation as it involve taking the engine out although some specialist garages can do this with the engine in place.



Insurance is expensive, especially for the newer Turbo Plus. However, if you go for the near identical Limited Edition turbo, it can be insured as a normal 20VT which is considerably cheaper to insure for some reason. The LE and Pluses come with subtle body kit, strut brace, 6 speed, cross drilled 4 pot Brembos and Recaro seats. The average economy is around 29-30mpg which is pretty good considering the performance and if you have a lead foot, the front tyres will last up to 10K.



Build quality is pretty good considering it’s a Fiat, however, all the Coupes were built at the Pinninfarina factory and not the Fiat factory. Better than the my Clio, although the electrics have been known to play up.



I had no problem toasting Boxter S’s, Imprezza WRX’s (UK), Audi TTs, Calibre 4x4 turbos, Golf and Corrado VR6’s, Alfa GTV 3.0’s, 406 3.0 Coupes and any rep and exec-mobiles. The only cars that have beaten me are M BMWs, Porsche 911 turbo, a modded Evo IV and TVR Chimeras.



The best site for Fiat Coupe info can be found at Wwww.Coupe-Sport.co.uk
 


Why not get your friend to consider another option. the Sunny GTI-R is avery quick car and you can pick them up quite cheap now. Its difficult to get a nice one but two of my friends own them and they are F*CKING quick!



Just a thought...
 


I think that the only down side to the GTiR is that they are mechanically not the greatest.. and if you purchase a standard one your going to need to throw quite alot of cash at it to get it up to a reasonable standard (14 inch wheels are a bit pathetic on a car with 220-227bhp depending on uk or jap) and the brakes suck, you cannot run the car over 1bar safely so would need some engine work on it etc... but there are a few nice ones out there considering that this is a 10year old car.

Tony
 


i was considering a GTiR myself and came to the same conclusion (too fragile) I am currently considering changing my Williams for an STI Impreza am still undecided. I have heard mixed reports and I think the only way to put my mind at rest would be to test drive one. I was also thinking of going for the Hatch version as it would be nice to have more room. Does anyone know what the perfomance and handling is like on these?

Dazz
 


Quote: Originally posted by Captain Slarty on 08 October 2002

the evo is a toyota corolla with a big lump in. (and no finesse).... again, interesting.. but still a corolla....
What??? Slarty, have you been drinking old oil again? The Evo is a corolla... WTF?? How can you even compare the 2??????? The Evo has been heralded as one of the greatest cars of its generation! Although Ive not been lucky enough to drive one granted...
As for the comment about the Scooby and the Evo not being as quick as a TVR - hello? What planet did you just land from??? When was the last time you saw a TVR in the WRC up against either of these?? Your point makes no sense at all! Theyre not even remotely similar!!!
 


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