172 turbo

[Stopherson]

ok i know this has been covered alot so i apologise now.

I am looking at making a turbo conversion. i want to keep the 172 head as i have seen the one made by michael woodford where he uses the 197 head. im not confident in drilling and tapping the head and that is more money i would rather save. what i would like to do is swap the pistons for domed ones to lower the compression ratio one question i have is should i change the conrods for forged ones if so i could save £332 to put towards other parts . i will be upgrading the head bolts with the arp f4r engine studs from ktec along with the uprated conrod bolts. i was looking at using a t28 turbo from a Nissan siliva but the one problem i am having is boost control what turbos do people recommend . also what do people do about the vvt .I don't have alot of money so this is a long project.

so far this is my list of parts if any one can see something i have missed please let me know

low compression part
t28 turbo
exhaust manifold from a megane 225
Turbo Oil Feed and Drain Hoses
megane 225 injectors
Turbo Heat Shield
KTR Sport GEN90 ECU
Water Hoses
2.5 Bar MAP Sensor
Downpipe
intercooler + pipe work
Air Filter


full on turbo conversion
Forged Piston
TURBO FUEL PUMP
TURBO FUEL RAIL + FITTINGS
Turbo Fuel Pressure Regulator
Arp F4r Engine Stud Kits
Arp Uprated Conrod Bolts
Genuine Renault Bottom End Gasket Set - F4R Engine
GENUINE RENAULT 172/182 HEADGASKET SET
ACL RACE SERIES BIG END BEARING SHELLS

how am i doing so far?
​

 

[WilkyWay]

Boost control depends on which ecu you use. Most aftermarket ecu's will control boost. Im sure the gen90 will control boost?

You can buy a cheapy dawes device type manual boost controller but theyre not the best. Or go for an independent electronic boost controller like an AVC-r or gizmo if youre on a budget.

Bare in mind if you use standard megane pistons youll either need valve pockets machined into them or ditch the VVT.

As for standard megane pistons if youre on a budget and you dont want more than 300hp then theres no need to go forged, a silvia turbo will do that sort of power as well.

 

[Cupman29]

225 Exhaust manifold won't work with the 172 inlet or breather and flanges are different to a t28 turbo.

 

[Stopherson]

Boost control depends on which ecu you use. Most aftermarket ecu's will control boost. Im sure the gen90 will control boost? You can buy a cheapy dawes device type manual boost controller but theyre not the best. Or go for an independent electronic boost controller like an AVC-r or gizmo if youre on a budget. Bare in mind if you use standard megane pistons youll either need valve pockets machined into them or ditch the VVT. As for standard megane pistons if youre on a budget and you dont want more than 300hp then theres no need to go forged, a silvia turbo will do that sort of power as well.

where would i get the vacuum from for the actuator tho for the boost? if i was to use forged pistons then would i be able to use the vvt with the gen90 ecu i could turn the vvt off any way.

 

[Stopherson]

225 Exhaust manifold won't work with the 172 inlet or breather and flanges are different to a t28 turbo.

why wouldnt if work with the inlet?
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?252740-clio-172-megane-225-engine

 

[Dan@SJM]

Tbh you could save money on the ecu and spend it where it's necessary for reliability, I.e rods.

 

[batesey]

You don't need a map sensor if your new ecu has one built in,

for over 260 I'd change conrods, pistons are pretty good upto 300+ ,
lower the CR with a thicker head gasket, run a ph1 fuel setup IMO

​obviously if you want over 300bhp forged pistons are the way to go for reliability

 

[Stopherson]

How could i save money with the ecu i was under the impression i needed a stand alone ecu to do the conversion. The reason i went for a ktec one is so i didn't have to redo the wiring loom.

 

[Stopherson]

You don't need a map sensor if your new ecu has one built in,

for over 260 I'd change conrods, pistons are pretty good upto 300+ ,
lower the CR with a thicker head gasket, run a ph1 fuel setup IMO

​obviously if you want over 300bhp forged pistons are the way to go for reliability

I was looking at head gaskets but every time i google it i find bad reviews. Whats the difference with a phase one fuel set up?

 

[Dan@SJM]

It's not hard to wire in a standalone ecu. 20 wires at most. Use your existing loom and just cut into it. I'm isn't a Megane gasket to lower my CR on my supercharged clio.

 

[Stopherson]

It's not hard to wire in a standalone ecu. 20 wires at most. Use your existing loom and just cut into it. I'm isn't a Megane gasket to lower my CR on my supercharged clio.

I just didn't want to have a spliced up wiring loom. If its cheaper i make go for that tho. I never thought of the megane head gasket cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

What power do you want?

Rods are ok for about 260lbft ish I reckon, beyond that its a bit of a lottery.

Megane injetors are best avoided if you get upto the 300bhp or so ballpark (in fact it appears that one has just cost me a piston at just over that)

Gen90 is expensive and also limits who you can ask to map it, I'd go for the extra hassle of wiring in generic aftermarket.

What clutch are you going to use?

Standard valves are a risk too, but ok if mapped safe generally, id still go supertech while the head is off though. (not at ktec prices though of course)

If you are looking for cost savings you dont really need ARP head studs, although personally I am a big fan of them anyway so I even put them in my mrs daily when we freshened up the engine.
Likewise with regards to rod bolts, as on a turbo motor you are generally revving less, so they are not really needed on standard rods, you are more likely on a turbo F4R to break the rods than the bolts (which is other way round to on an N/A one really)

 

[batesey]

Ph1 fuel setup has a regulator in the rail and has a return back to the tank, IMO go for omex if you want cheap, these can be found in eBay 2nd hand and everywhere can map it, it's a bit dated but still works,
I run adaptronic and its pretty good IMO but again I'm limited to who can map it

 

[Chip-mk1]

Agreed on the Ph1 fuel setup, I think its very silly when people start losing a bar of effective fuel pressure on boost on the ph2 setup, means you need far bigger injectors and also effects atomisation no doubt.

 

[Stopherson]

What power do you want?

Rods are ok for about 260lbft ish I reckon, beyond that its a bit of a lottery.

Megane injetors are best avoided if you get upto the 300bhp or so ballpark (in fact it appears that one has just cost me a piston at just over that)

Gen90 is expensive and also limits who you can ask to map it, I'd go for the extra hassle of wiring in generic aftermarket.

What clutch are you going to use?

Standard valves are a risk too, but ok if mapped safe generally, id still go supertech while the head is off though. (not at ktec prices though of course)

If you are looking for cost savings you dont really need ARP head studs, although personally I am a big fan of them anyway so I even put them in my mrs daily when we freshened up the engine.
Likewise with regards to rod bolts, as on a turbo motor you are generally revving less, so they are not really needed on standard rods, you are more likely on a turbo F4R to break the rods than the bolts (which is other way round to on an N/A one really)

i was aiming for about 250 bhp but now i would like 300bhp. if i go for an omex 600 ecu that saving can go to wards conrods and valves then. where would the best place be to get supertech valves with uprated springs. i will also go for some different injectors then have you got any suggestions

clutch i was going to go for a paddle clutch maybe even a lightened fly wheel also depending on money at the end of it all but that could always come at a later date.
i would like to add uprated head studs just to be on the safe side. i will look for a mk1 fuel setup.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ph1 Mk2 you want, not mk1.

Injectors, go for something in the 500-600cc region

supertechs can be bought direct from the states but I normally buy a few sets at a time when doing that to keep the postage cost per set down, so might be worth seeing if anyone else is ordering soon (I wont need any for ages now so cant help you myself)

ED do some basic uprated valve springs, that should be fine on such a moderate spec, but so will standard TBH

I wouldnt bother with a lighter flywheel on a turbo 172 personally, standard is fine.

Diff is absolutely essential at that level IMHO if you intend to actually use the car properly on track rather than just post on the internet about it which is all a lot of people seem to want to do with these cars, lol.

 

[Stopherson]

Ph1 Mk2 you want, not mk1.

Injectors, go for something in the 500-600cc region

supertechs can be bought direct from the states but I normally buy a few sets at a time when doing that to keep the postage cost per set down, so might be worth seeing if anyone else is ordering soon (I wont need any for ages now so cant help you myself)

ED do some basic uprated valve springs, that should be fine on such a moderate spec, but so will standard TBH

I wouldnt bother with a lighter flywheel on a turbo 172 personally, standard is fine.

Diff is absolutely essential at that level IMHO if you intend to actually use the car properly on track rather than just post on the internet about it which is all a lot of people seem to want to do with these cars, lol.

ok cheers i this is going to be a long going project so to start with im just getting a part list then buy something every month. i was looking at the quaife diff from ktec but i was going to leave that untill very last.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Quaiffe can be had a lot cheaper than through KTEC.

TBH I think you should look around quite a bit when buying ALL parts if you are on a budget.

 

[Stopherson]

Quaiffe can be had a lot cheaper than through KTEC.

TBH I think you should look around quite a bit when buying ALL parts if you are on a budget.

yea at the moment im just using ktec for a parts list then going on a hunt for the parts.

 

[Chip-mk1]

To do it properly with decent quality parts for 300bhp, including upgrades to brakes and gearbox etc, you need to think of 10K as your ballpark.

240bhp is a LOT cheaper than that though, and might be a better place for your budget?

 

[Stopherson]

To do it properly with decent quality parts for 300bhp, including upgrades to brakes and gearbox etc, you need to think of 10K as your ballpark.

240bhp is a LOT cheaper than that though, and might be a better place for your budget?

Yea i think to begin with thats what im going to go for and upgrade from there.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sounds a good plan, can spread the cost more then and still get to use the car sooner

 

[Cupman29]

why wouldnt if work with the inlet?
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?252740-clio-172-megane-225-engine

Turbo hits off the outlet of the breather and also the coil pack mount on the inlet.

The breather could be modified but the inlet just wont work with the 225 manifold.

Flanges are different anyway for your choice of turbo.

 

[Stopherson]

dose any one know what its like to install the omex 600 ecu?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Reasonably easy if you can use a multimeter and a soldering iron

 

[Stopherson]

Reasonably easy if you can use a multimeter and a soldering iron

that's ok then dose the omex come with instructions for instillation so all i have to do is work out what wires i need from the ecu plug and swap them to the omex ecu or do i splice into the wires.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You need to either unpin or if doing further along the loom then cut not splice in or both will be trying to open the Injectors at once and both trying to do the timing down the same wire etc

 

[Stopherson]

You need to either unpin or if doing further along the loom then cut not splice in or both will be trying to open the Injectors at once and both trying to do the timing down the same wire etc

cheers i will properly cut and cap. what would stop the engine management light from coming on?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ph1 or ph2?
​

 

[Stopherson]

ph2

 

[Chip-mk1]

Buy a gen90 then if the light really bothers you.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ps

But Ecu should be the LAST thing you buy.

 

[Stopherson]

the ecu will be the last thing i get as its the most expensive. the light wouldn't bother me being on. im just trying to work out what would be better for me. i think the gen90 would be better but the omex is cheaper and i have places closer for remapping

 

[Dan@SJM]

Ratt Racing is a good mapper down their believe.

 

[Stopherson]

what would be the best way to link the coolant system up to the turbo? i have read about using the pipe that goes into the heater matrix

 

[Cupman29]

what would be the best way to link the coolant system up to the turbo? i have read about using the pipe that goes into the heater matrix

This is my prefered option. It is the only way to get a true syphon effect to cool the turbo after the engine is off.