I have seen a number of 1*2 vs Williams’ threads over my time on Clio Sport and I thought now having owned both I would contribute to this.
My main aim of writing this is to help those which have a budget in mind and are looking to buy one or the other or possibly switching either way.
I don’t intend for this to be a buyer’s guide and list all possible scenarios of where one is better than another but just a “fair” comparison…. My Williams 3 is what I would call “standard” – it has a full stainless steel exhaust and the 172 has no modifications.
I haven’t driven or owned a 172 Cup nor a 182 Cup or Trophy. The main reason of comparing these two cars specifically i.e. a 172 and Williams is that in terms of cost they are now generally very comparable and someone looking to buy a 172 or Williams certainly will not be considering a Trophy or 182 Cup thus I deem it irrelevant.
Only those of you on here who have owned a 172 and 182/182Cup can describe the further differences between a these cars but from what I know and have been “told” there really is neglible differences.
Anyway, on with my “review” or comparison if you will:
The first thing I noticed about swapping from the Williams to the 172 was the seating position. In the 172 I really do feel they got this all wrong, you sit very high which gives the feel you could be behind the wheel of Transit rather than a modern hot hatch! The steering wheel also feels as if it has come from an old fashion steam boat as its roughly 30metres in diameter – both of these factors really detract from the overall initial impression of the car which is a big shame. Whereas in the Williams you sit a lot lower and more purposefully, you also have a much more modest steering wheel which allows you to manipulate the car easier.
The actual seats however I have no complaints about… Coming from the Williams interior to the 172 is a pleasant experience, you get half leather alacantra seats nicely stitched with Renault Sport and the instrument cluster is much more modern take, not to mention the “toys” which are fun to mess about with.
However, apart from these stitched seats what else lets me know I am in a hot hatch? Well, nothing. I have a small badge on the steering wheel which says Renault Sport but aside from that there is bugger all to say – “You are in a sporty car”. Ok, so my point here can be irrelevant as there does become a point or line you draw and say – “I want it to let me know I am in a hot hatch but not be chavvy”. This is a line Ford crossed when designing the old Focus RS and to some degree you may feel the Williams interior has crossed to but I on the other hand really appreciate this extra effort.
For example in the Williams not only do I have blue seat belts, blue dials, blue gear knob, differentiated standard steering wheel, embossed seats I also get three wonderful dials which say: Oil temperature, oil pressure and cold oil level on ignition. Unlike the Ford though, it is done in a much more tasteful way with dark navy blue the colour of choice which really isn’t as much in your face as the text describes.
These extra changes in the Williams go some way to suggest what the car is all about, not only do these dials look good but are of great importance and let you know when its ‘good to go’ and ok to hammer it. This is something which I really doubt many owners realise – just how long it takes for an engine to fully warm up although I do accept more modern engines will stand up to abuse a little more and maybe these instruments have lost a little bit of their importance they are great to look at and help in deciding how healthy an engine is.
The power and speed of the cars is not really something I want to get too bogged down in as this really does get talked about to destruction. The cars I would say are very similar in performance with the 172, I feel certainly pulling better at higher speeds however, less than 70 or 80mph there is nothing in it.
The more important factor here is the actual delivery of this power. The 172 really needs to be thrashed and above that magic five thousand rev’s whereas the Williams can really pull well from 3k. This point can easily be confirmed when pootling along a country road at 20-30mph in second gear… Push it and there is that little delay until you get up the rev’s when ‘you’re off’. This point is further exaggerated by the Williams’ shorter gear ratio’s and lower red line so the gear times are very short but this does mean you never have to wait for power and don’t have to really thrash it to get somewhere quick. I suppose this criticism or fact is best interpreted by the reader and how they prefer to drive – coming from the Williams I much prefer the way it pull’s in 2nd and 3rd but others might like longer gear times in time I may sway either way.
The handling of the cars is also fairly different, the Williams I would say is a lot more twitchy on the limit and easy to know when you get to that limit. The 172 is a bit more ‘lazy’ and you have to work on it to push it as you never are really sure where that is so stay within its boundaries a little more. To be honest, I rarely really push my cars hard on the road for fear of crashing or losing control which is why I am always at the back of the pack on a run… It is fair to say that both are fun to drive but all magazines and members who I have spoken to sum it up in very few words – The Williams is just a better driver’s car, which is spot on.
However this is where the 172 scores massively and the Williams falls back. The 172 really is a great car to be in, its very nice to drive and not at all a chore and for all its greatness and being a drivers car the Williams by this very nature is very, very raw. I drive between 30 and 40 miles a day generally and this is why I have ended up with a 172. The Williams would often begin to grate and in all fairness it is 13 years old but doing those kind of mileages and driving made it difficult to enjoy it. The 172 offers 75% of the fun factor with 10% of the hassle of the Williams and when making a balanced decision this made the 172 a winner for me. I also think it only fair to mention the 172’s unbelievable petrol consumption too. Where the Williams can achieve similar mpg’s this is due to driving like miss daisy but the 172 seems to get excellent returns from a mix of pushing it and driving sensibly. When you cane the Williams it really does use petrol which when doing 40 miles a day again makes you think twice.
So, which would I own? Which do I think is best? I think it’s fairly obvious from my write up. If you want a great car to have a thrash about with on the weekend it has to be the Williams. If you are doing considerable mileage and need just one car it has to be the 172. If you have a few thousand to spend and not sure what to do with it – Buy a 1.2 for the week and have the Williams there for the weekend!
My main aim of writing this is to help those which have a budget in mind and are looking to buy one or the other or possibly switching either way.
I don’t intend for this to be a buyer’s guide and list all possible scenarios of where one is better than another but just a “fair” comparison…. My Williams 3 is what I would call “standard” – it has a full stainless steel exhaust and the 172 has no modifications.
I haven’t driven or owned a 172 Cup nor a 182 Cup or Trophy. The main reason of comparing these two cars specifically i.e. a 172 and Williams is that in terms of cost they are now generally very comparable and someone looking to buy a 172 or Williams certainly will not be considering a Trophy or 182 Cup thus I deem it irrelevant.
Only those of you on here who have owned a 172 and 182/182Cup can describe the further differences between a these cars but from what I know and have been “told” there really is neglible differences.
Anyway, on with my “review” or comparison if you will:
The first thing I noticed about swapping from the Williams to the 172 was the seating position. In the 172 I really do feel they got this all wrong, you sit very high which gives the feel you could be behind the wheel of Transit rather than a modern hot hatch! The steering wheel also feels as if it has come from an old fashion steam boat as its roughly 30metres in diameter – both of these factors really detract from the overall initial impression of the car which is a big shame. Whereas in the Williams you sit a lot lower and more purposefully, you also have a much more modest steering wheel which allows you to manipulate the car easier.
The actual seats however I have no complaints about… Coming from the Williams interior to the 172 is a pleasant experience, you get half leather alacantra seats nicely stitched with Renault Sport and the instrument cluster is much more modern take, not to mention the “toys” which are fun to mess about with.
However, apart from these stitched seats what else lets me know I am in a hot hatch? Well, nothing. I have a small badge on the steering wheel which says Renault Sport but aside from that there is bugger all to say – “You are in a sporty car”. Ok, so my point here can be irrelevant as there does become a point or line you draw and say – “I want it to let me know I am in a hot hatch but not be chavvy”. This is a line Ford crossed when designing the old Focus RS and to some degree you may feel the Williams interior has crossed to but I on the other hand really appreciate this extra effort.
For example in the Williams not only do I have blue seat belts, blue dials, blue gear knob, differentiated standard steering wheel, embossed seats I also get three wonderful dials which say: Oil temperature, oil pressure and cold oil level on ignition. Unlike the Ford though, it is done in a much more tasteful way with dark navy blue the colour of choice which really isn’t as much in your face as the text describes.
These extra changes in the Williams go some way to suggest what the car is all about, not only do these dials look good but are of great importance and let you know when its ‘good to go’ and ok to hammer it. This is something which I really doubt many owners realise – just how long it takes for an engine to fully warm up although I do accept more modern engines will stand up to abuse a little more and maybe these instruments have lost a little bit of their importance they are great to look at and help in deciding how healthy an engine is.
The power and speed of the cars is not really something I want to get too bogged down in as this really does get talked about to destruction. The cars I would say are very similar in performance with the 172, I feel certainly pulling better at higher speeds however, less than 70 or 80mph there is nothing in it.
The more important factor here is the actual delivery of this power. The 172 really needs to be thrashed and above that magic five thousand rev’s whereas the Williams can really pull well from 3k. This point can easily be confirmed when pootling along a country road at 20-30mph in second gear… Push it and there is that little delay until you get up the rev’s when ‘you’re off’. This point is further exaggerated by the Williams’ shorter gear ratio’s and lower red line so the gear times are very short but this does mean you never have to wait for power and don’t have to really thrash it to get somewhere quick. I suppose this criticism or fact is best interpreted by the reader and how they prefer to drive – coming from the Williams I much prefer the way it pull’s in 2nd and 3rd but others might like longer gear times in time I may sway either way.
The handling of the cars is also fairly different, the Williams I would say is a lot more twitchy on the limit and easy to know when you get to that limit. The 172 is a bit more ‘lazy’ and you have to work on it to push it as you never are really sure where that is so stay within its boundaries a little more. To be honest, I rarely really push my cars hard on the road for fear of crashing or losing control which is why I am always at the back of the pack on a run… It is fair to say that both are fun to drive but all magazines and members who I have spoken to sum it up in very few words – The Williams is just a better driver’s car, which is spot on.
However this is where the 172 scores massively and the Williams falls back. The 172 really is a great car to be in, its very nice to drive and not at all a chore and for all its greatness and being a drivers car the Williams by this very nature is very, very raw. I drive between 30 and 40 miles a day generally and this is why I have ended up with a 172. The Williams would often begin to grate and in all fairness it is 13 years old but doing those kind of mileages and driving made it difficult to enjoy it. The 172 offers 75% of the fun factor with 10% of the hassle of the Williams and when making a balanced decision this made the 172 a winner for me. I also think it only fair to mention the 172’s unbelievable petrol consumption too. Where the Williams can achieve similar mpg’s this is due to driving like miss daisy but the 172 seems to get excellent returns from a mix of pushing it and driving sensibly. When you cane the Williams it really does use petrol which when doing 40 miles a day again makes you think twice.
So, which would I own? Which do I think is best? I think it’s fairly obvious from my write up. If you want a great car to have a thrash about with on the weekend it has to be the Williams. If you are doing considerable mileage and need just one car it has to be the 172. If you have a few thousand to spend and not sure what to do with it – Buy a 1.2 for the week and have the Williams there for the weekend!
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read the whole thing.
