182 ’knocking’ sorted once & for all

[Faz182]

Hi Everyone.

The knocking subject rears its ugly head again but I feel I have a breakthrough.

Took the 182 to Gordon Lambs, Chesterfield, for the second time re: the above problem, and they seem to have found it, after 2 test drives with 2 different mechanics TODAY!! It is the RIGHT HAND ENGINE MOUNT (not the exhaust heat shield or anything else) that generates the knocking sound that everyone seems to be getting. So heres what Ive done:....

Pic1: Highlighted the suspect engine mount:

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1102785224__Engine1.jpg

Pic2: The yellow arrows indicate the movement the engine makes to generate the knocking sound, and the rewd arrows are pointing to 2 rubber bungs on each end of that suare thing. If the engine mount isnt aligned properly, like mine, then there is an unnequal gap on either side between the rubber thingys and the black outer surround.

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1102785228__Engine2.jpg

Pic3 (side on from driver side front wing): Red arrows indicate where the gaps were. The mechanic adjusted the 4 large silver bolts and put some gobbo stuff, that they use on brakes, round the rubber bungs to minimise the move and any contact that will cause the knocking. The whole thing is tighter, and yet give the engine the freedom and flexibility it needs.

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1102785231__Engine3.jpg

I you sit in the car, all windows up, and someone rocks the engine in the direction of the yellow arrows you can definiatley hear it knock. THATs how we found where it was coming from. Once the source of the problem was found they knew what to do.

Its just that if it doesnt hit a Reno dealer or mechanic in the face in the first 2 seconds then they havent got a clue. But luckily I found one with a bit of perseverance. Up and down Gordon Lambs car park dozens of time, accelerating and deccelerating.

Also, there was another 182 in after me with the same problem, so I told him what was what, and about cliosport.net.

Twas a good day today

Hope that helps everyone.

 

[Toypop]

So you are saying I should get my torch, go out in the cold and check that I have an even gap yeah?

 

[Faz182]

No, but if your 182 is knocking and its pi$$ing you off, at least you know what to tell the spud at Reno. If you can put up with it clocking everytime you deccelerate then thats fine.

Its just that loads of people on here are on about this problem, and apart from dave182, nobodys found the cause or had it fixed. Lees has been in about 5 times already, so I just thought Id try and help out, as mines fixed.

It wasnt dark when I took the pics, so no torch or flash was needed....neither was the sarcasm really.

 

[blaupunkt]

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 11 December 2004
So you are saying I should get my torch, go out in the cold and check that I have an even gap yeah?


or you could wait till the morning

 

[STEAMY WINDOWS]

where u from? pm me if u can be arsed

 

[Toypop]

Quote: Originally posted by blaupunkt on 11 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 11 December 2004

So you are saying I should get my torch, go out in the cold and check that I have an even gap yeah?

or you could wait till the morning




I was actually being deadly serious (not sarcastic) as the problem is bugging me. So I went out and had a look. I can see daylight between the rubber block/bung closest to the front of the car and the big black metal surround - only about 1mm but daylight none the less. The rubber block nearest the back of the car is pressing against the black metal surround. If that makes sense.

What does everyone else see on theirs?

For what its worth the knocking noise does appear to come from that location when I am driving. Near the right hand wheel - definitely way off to the right. It does sound to be coming a little lower down when I am sat in the car but that could depend on how the sound travels.

How easy is it to make that adjustment myself by undoing those 4 bolts? They are a standard size and I just do them up as tight as I can? No specified torque settings? Tbh I think those rubber bungs need to be bigger.

 

[Faz182]

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 11 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by blaupunkt on 11 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 11 December 2004

So you are saying I should get my torch, go out in the cold and check that I have an even gap yeah?

or you could wait till the morning




I was actually being deadly serious (not sarcastic) as I the problem is bugging me. So I went out and had a look. I can see daylight between the rubber block/bung closest to the front of the car and the big black metal surround - only about 1mm but daylight none the less. The rubber block nearest the back of the car is pressing against the black metal surround. If that makes sense.

Mate, sorry, I wasnt having a dig. I just put a bit of effort in to try and help people out. thats all. I know how much this 182 problem has done the rounds.

If its knocking on deceleration, thats probably why. Its up to the mechanics to adjust accordingly. When its convenient, light enough and warm enough , see if you can get somone to rock your engine while you sit in the car, and then swap over. Youll get to see where its coming from.

I was told my engine mount was adjusted wonkey anyway, which probably didnt help.

Basically Ive only identified the problem, given us a bit of ammo to take to the dealer so therell be no more confusion over what it could be.

 

[mcyates]

Thank you very much. I shal Print this out and take it in when i decide to take my car in. I was supposed to go in this wednesday for 3 days but i had commitments so i had to cancel.



Thanks again, i hope this is the problem when i take it in.

 

[Liam]

I agree the sound does seem to come from that engine mount and it makes sense what you say.

Ill look tomorrow to see if there is a gap on mine too.

Must admit all this talk about exhaust causing the noise seemed a little far fetched it clearly sounds like an engine/rubber clunk to me, on mine anyway.

 

[rwaterman]

Cant say ive heard this on mine would you say i would no if i have it?

 

[Liam]

speed up when driving on quiet road to about 30mph in second then let go of accelerator, do u hear a "CUH" thats the sound you need to listen for.

 

[Boz]

Many thanks Faz. Printed out ready for when I go in. Can you remember the names of the mechanics who sorted it a Lambs, as Ill probably take mine there?

Up the blades!

 

[Toypop]

So can those that claim they havent got this problem take a look at the gaps and see what theirs is like?

 

[Liam]

i will look later at mine, clearly no "NEED" to get it sorted if thats all it is.

 

[Boz]

Also I asked this question again on renault sport forum panel of experts, and although they dont anwser diredtly, seems to be aong the lines of they know its the mount that is causing the problems. See below (full text - forgive my spelling was in a rush when i asked the question)

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/community/experts/questiondetail.asp?QuestionID=93&ExpertID=6&TopicID=2http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/community/experts/questiondetail.asp?QuestionID=93&ExpertID=6&TopicID=2











Road Car Technical

BozM asked
Knocking O/S Front - Clio 182

This problem as reported by SilverCup 182 is prevelent in 182s. Many people (20+) on Cliosport.net have the probelm, and as far as Im aware only one as had it succefully fixed at the dealer. A go to your dealer reponse is no help unfortunately Allen. A rerenece to a fix (tech note?)which we (the car owners) cant see but can pass on to the dealer would help. I cant see how this breaches your security policy. I hope you are able to help many of us who have put are faith in Renault and bought the 182. Many thanks .. Andy M

Allen Collen responds
At the moment this complaint is under investigation and most dealers seem to be replacing engine mountings with a degree of success. Once there is a ratified solution with a suitable stock of parts RUK will communicate this information via the forum. Thanks for your patience.

 

[dk]

cool, sounds good to me, as i said before I had a few things done to my car including adjustments to my exhaust and heat shield at the same time so couldnt pinpoint what the cause was but the engineer did grease that engine mount and it was after that that the knocking stopped.

Had I known it was going to be such a problem for many of you I would have asked at the time for a detailed explanation but at the time nobody else had the problem.

Hopefully you can all get it rectified now as it is much better without it.

 

[Faz182]

Quote: Originally posted by BozM on 12 December 2004


Many thanks Faz. Printed out ready for when I go in. Can you remember the names of the mechanics who sorted it a Lambs, as Ill probably take mine there?

Up the blades!

No I didnt get the names of the mechanics at Lambs. The first one was a team leader, who went out in the car while I was wandering around Chesterfield, I then went out with a YT fella, and then, as I was leaving to go home, the knocking sound came back so I ran back in to the service dept and a third, different mechanic came out. He was the one who sourced the problem.

JAY172 who uses this forum works at Gordon Lambs, Chesterfield.

 

[Liam]

Faz so is your cured now?

 

[Faz182]

Yep.

 

[FiXX]

but whats actually making contact to create the noise?

 

[Lee]

Ill give mine a rock tonight and if it is that Ill ask them to fix it Wednesday while they fix the rest of the faults.

 

[KDF]

I dont get knocking on de-celeration, i get bangs on hard acceleration when the wheels spin..

 

[FiXX]

ive been out and rocked mine and it never moved anything like enough for the mount to touch the black cup surrouding it, nor could i hear the knocking while doing so. Although i really hope it is something as simple as that.

 

[Toypop]

Call me a wimp but I tried rocking my engine and it didnt move so much as 1mm!!!

 

[CocoPops]

If youve ever seen a car on an RR, youll soon see how even just a gentle gear change causes the engine to rock, so youve got to try harder Toypop

 

[silvercup182]

Nice one boz Im still waiting for a call back from renault ahh! Allen does not like answering questions with a real answer unless it starts in Renault and finishes in thats great!

 

[Liam]

heres mine Faz, coudnt replicate the movement with my hands, would you say mine looks to have the gap like yours did?

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1102957618__mount.jpg

As you can see the metal block itself is in contact with the rubber grips either side but the rubber grips are not in contact with the rest of the black mount surround, is this what you mean?

 

[JAMESSRICH]

there should be a special tool that fits between the metal braket and the rubber luggs to postion the mount in the correct place (give equal distance of gaps between the rubber and metal)

 

[Liam]

if u look above james, there is no gap between the shiny steel and the rubber clamps touching them.

 

[FiXX]

This is DEFINATELY the problem, (on mine anyway) but i dont see why anyone elses will be different. I used an old exhaust rubber and wrapped it round the mount temporarily and the noise was gone, just going to adjust it myself tomorrow morning. Nice one Faz182, nice one indeed, the noise has been doing my head in!

 

[Liam]

Fixx, going by my pic above where do i need to cram the runbber/ or anything else to see if it stops?

 

[Faz182]

Im not sure what the gap size has to be between the rubber block things, or how to adjust it and where. I am not a Reno mechanic. According to the Reno dude my engine mount was incorrectly adjusted anyway. He then took it away and tinkered. Apart from the greasy substance around the bungs, I really cannot tell what he did.

All Ive done is to highlight where the knocking problem is definitely coming from, enabling us to eliminate the other potential causes that have been discussed. So if/when you all go to the dealer you know where the problem is to tell them, saving them searching all day only to tell you when you pick the car up is that, "we couldnt find it, or make it knock."

To anyone who are rocking their engine, its best to have someone else rock it while you sit in the driver seat with all windows up and door shut. Thats when the noise is perfectly replicated as tho it was happening while driving.

When the Reno Mechanic rocked mine, I couldnt hear any knocking while looking under the bonnet watching him do it. It was only when I was sat in the car that I heard that familiar and annoying knock.

 

[FiXX]

Quote: Originally posted by Liam182 on 13 December 2004

Fixx, going by my pic above where do i need to cram the runbber/ or anything else to see if it stops?





just inbetween the current rubber bungs and the black U shaped guard surrounding the mount. There is a noticeably different gap between each side on mine so ill have a bash at adjusting it tomorrow and hopefully sort it.

 

[Liam]

let me know how you get on, what are you planning to undo the bolts and adjust?

I cant think of anything to cram in between to test it, i dont think i have anything.

 

[Rob33]

Just been out and fixed mine, give that bloke a medal

 

[Liam]

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1102967093__1102957618__mount.jpgso i should shove some stuff down here as in the pic? renault should make a different mount available.

 

[Toypop]

Rob33, what exactly did you do to fix it?

 

[Rob33]

Basically loosend the 4 bolts on the engine mount levered it about abit until it was central then tightend it up and no knocking was the result, mine was off centre to start with.

 

[Lee]

Looks like I can tell them what to fix tomorrow then. I think Ill grab the RTE (provided theres one in this time) and show him what I want doing.

 

[Faz182]

Yep, thats why I started this thread.