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182 and 172 exhaust production



  172//Crap Micra//Bus
I believe that this set up is 2xAR25 Air Resonators with an Air Turbine on the back. Is the same kind of System I have been discussing with Fin... Im now just wondering if id be better sticking with 1 AR25 rather than 2, as I don't want anything ott, but something with slightly more of a Yozza sound when gunning it, with a Slash Cut Aero Tip. Fin are they Silenced Tips on the 172?!

As regards to Resonation through the car... I have no idea... thats Fins area of expertise lol!
 
BUT we have found that the deep tone travels directly through the car and resonates at around 3000 to 4000 rpm , Its sounds like it comming straight through the rear hatch :-(

Im also going to look again at the hanging solutions we have available as the front OEM mount is useless and the one rear mount wont hold the system solid enough for my liking.

Fin, let us know what solution you come up with on the OEM hangers, cos both mine are shot and if you come up with something, i won't replace mine yet, i'll get it done when i bring it to you.

Also the resonation at 3-4K happens on mine but has been reduced when i moved the middle box back towards the back of the car, with the pipe you sold me.

the 172 system you made, has it got 3 aero silencers on it? if so is there enough space if you moved the 1st box to in front of the over axle bend? if not how loud would it be with 3 aero boxes?
exhaust.gif


cheers Daz

Daz, Yep we left enough room to fit an AR in that gap if needs be. Ive actualy done this system in 2" tubing until the rear section. (2" you can get 250bhp down a 2" tube if its made right)

And you right about the front AR doing very little.

As said this system is quiet as it is 90.3db (on the out side). What Im thinking of is to gut the rear Aero Turbine and replace the insides with our own resonator wodding and perforated tube. Which will give a more mellow sound than the true Aero Turbine.... ...BUT first thing will be to re mount the rear and mid section with some traditional Fig of 8 rubber mounts And will Junk the original mounts... The resonance could be from the stiffness of rear mount.

An other option is to pop a stainless flexi joint in the system... this should isolate much of the vibration from the engine

So lots to think about
 
  TVR Cerbera
Fin, how loud do you think it would be with 2x 2525 and 1x 2525xl on the 172 system all in 2.5 and no cat?

will the 3 turbines be a waste? i need the most performance that i can out of the exhaust (track car so under 100db's)

i'll try and arrange with you to bring my 172 down so you can measure the db's if you don't mind cos i know mine's loud and then i can decide how much quieter i want it.

thanks Daz
 
All the systems are comming in at below 100db,

But its this Resonance that I need to solve. It might just be the case that the Clio just needs better sound proofing (I dont know Ive never looked in side the boot of one) Do you get a lot of road noise from the back of the car?
 
  TVR Cerbera
Is it important where the aero turbine is in the system to get the benefit from it?
does the benefit increase with more aero turbines ?

Daz
 
We have found increases with the silencer both at the front and the back of the system from the AT's

The best effective silencing is with the AT at the front. BUT on our Euro cars they just dont fit in many of the transmission tunnels (well thats what it used to be called before the wrong wheels started to put power to the tarmac..lol). Im working with Aero to develop an ideal sized AT silencer that will fit (4.5" od would be perfect)

Does the benefit increase with the number of AT's... In my experiance with the silencer we have seen some great results over stock systems with a single AT. There has only been a few of systems that have been able to have 2 ATs in a row.. And yes they were quite impressive.... BUT it just wont fit under a Clio Im affraid
 
  Mazda MX5 1.8
Do you get a lot of road noise from the back of the car?

in a word - yes

the clio only has a crappy bit of what is seems like cardboard in the boot with a small bit of sound proofing above where the exhaust hangs..... and under the seats there is just metal so sound proofing in the back is a bit of a joke on the whole
 
Daz, going back to a earlier point. I have never tried 3 x AT in a row.... It would be inter5esting for sure but untill we get the smaller ATs made then we are not going to find out.... Im working on it...
 
Do you get a lot of road noise from the back of the car?

in a word - yes

the clio only has a crappy bit of what is seems like cardboard in the boot with a small bit of sound proofing above where the exhaust hangs..... and under the seats there is just metal so sound proofing in the back is a bit of a joke on the whole

Thanks for that Chris.... It explains a LOT with the problems we have been seeing
 
  Vectra 1.9 CDTi SRi 150
TBH the telescpoic connection is a poor deisgn... If every system is hand made by Fin he can account for the difference between PH-1 and PH-2 lengths.

As for clio 172's with a 182 manifold fitted you would need a link pipe made, as the manifold doesnt line up exactly with the 172 exhaust system. It requires a slight angle on the flange.

Hi Gray,

If a 182 manifod is fiitted correctly it should fit directly to a stock 172 exhaust sysyem. Most fit a sports cat or de-cat when doing this and need the link pipe at the front of the CAT for alignment to the 182 manifold. K-tec have proven products in this area and confirmed this with me today.

My point is, that Fin should know, that from the CAT back, all 172 should be the same regardless off which manifold is fitted and it is the CAT that is different. The problem arises when the CAT or DECAT is custom made and the joining position with the exhaust is incorrect. This is where a custom exhaust is requred and a car would not be suitable for making a stock system for a jig.
Please correct me if i'm wrong.......just trying to help.
 
J

jarfun123

Been back to see fin today, had the car done last sat but had a few problems with the sound levels in the car. The system has been reworked and the noise level has been dropped significantly. The workmanship and quality of the system is excellent and fin has be ever so helpful. He has took a video today of the noise level which i am sure he will post. Also noticed a couple more mpg with the system on the 60 mile trip home.
 
  2002 172
Also noticed a couple more mpg with the system on the 60 mile trip home.

you arent the only one bud, was surprised when i went to scarborough on friday, drove round all weekend and got 195 miles to half a tank. and i refilled monday morning and got 255 miles and the light hadnt even come on :)

normally 225 miles and the light is flashing. so ive definately noticed the difference:cool:
 
Sorry Mark, I was Up to my kneck with it... He is comming back in for a check and I'll get some Pics then
 
  1998 BMW e46 323i
Once you get to the stage of being able to send these in the post for the 172 I'll be due a 2nd replacement exhaust, and would be interested if the price was right...
 
again Daz, Up to my kneck with things so no progress there and Ive also just told my previous supplier of Exhaust Mounts to Sod off after being mucked about by them.

Right Guys... Im off to do a trade stand at the Stoneleigh Kit Car Show so wont be back online till Tuesday

Our Stand will be in Halls A-E number 314 if anyone is going to the show (Great place to buy everything you need (Sound Deadening material anyone) for that custom work!!!!)
 
Been back to see fin today, had the car done last sat but had a few problems with the sound levels in the car. The system has been reworked and the noise level has been dropped significantly. The workmanship and quality of the system is excellent and fin has be ever so helpful. He has took a video today of the noise level which i am sure he will post. Also noticed a couple more mpg with the system on the 60 mile trip home.

Last week we had it down to 84 db @ 3000 rpm from running on the spot..... But John wanted even less.... Its now at 80.7 db at 3000rpm 1m away from the tip at 45 deg... At tick over its 70.1 db....

TALKING IS 76 Db

Blip the throttle hard and its still not hitting 90 db's

Dont get me wrong for a straight through system this is taking the micky a bit .. Its now just one long silencer from front to back.... BUT ITS QUIET as it can be:rasp:


Sound Resonance in the car... Well we have found the reason on the 172 , why the sound comes right into the car.... The French designers put two sodding great big holes at the rear of the boot floor with a flap of plastic on the back... These are just above the exit of the exhaust.... Well done the French for such a stupid place to put the cars air vents:dapprove:
 
  172//Crap Micra//Bus
Right, Sorry for the late posting guys, but have been all over the bl**dy place this weekend! Went to see Fin on Saturday to get the Exhaust done, and I think its safe to say that an interesting time was had by all, lol! I did try to stay out of Fins way where ever possible, but that Aero System Fin put together is such a lovely looking system.

The system Fin built was pretty much the exact same as Daz's, just a little louder lol! We decided to leave the standard cat on, and simply build back. From the cat Fin decided it was best to go with 2 inline AR20's then stick with a Straight Through pipe to the Aero Turbine where the back box would be, and finish off with a 2.5" Slash Cut Tail Pipe. I agreed, and let him get on with it. Now im no expert, but the system itself seemed to be very straight forward (minus the baffling shrinkage part), and the quality was enhanced by Fin's Welding skills.

After that, we did a final check on the sound levels... and thats where the fun really began. Which ever idiot Frenchmen decided that them mounts where a good idea... deserves to be shot, they where truely awful, and completely useless. Fin made some rather sturdy custom mounts, which seemed to do the trick, until I took it for a quick spin and we found that for some reason the Exhaust was pulling down to the left, into the bumper. We did find a solution to the problem later after a couple of attempts... but after my incredibly long drive home, in the wrong direction, I found that it does still move slightly, which is rather odd. However, it does now seem to move back when its cooled down.

The sound levels seemed pretty bob on at the time, and exactly what I was looking for:
Tick over over was at about 70-71db
3000 RPM was at about 86-88db
and 5,500-6,500 RPM was around 95-97db
However, the drive home was quite bad, the droning nearly made me deaf lol! But thats what I would expect from a new exhaust tbh. After a long drive down to Manchester... and around Manchester about 50 times (Lost AGAIN), it did seem to start bedding down quite nicely. And when I did finally manage to find my way home, it was a damn site better.

As for MPG, I didn't really notice a massive difference tbh. Saying that though... I did seem to get a little more out of it... maybe 1-2 extra MPG. This is something which I will be watching more closely over the coming weeks though.

All in all, was an interesting day, with great banter. The system Fin built was excellent with superb workmanship, and it really is starting to settle down nicely now, and I will soon have a better idea on MPG increases.

Cheers Fin for your hard work, hope this ESSAY answers everyones questions, definetly money well spent in my opinion... and the car seems to rev so much easier now!
 
  2002 172
as i said earlier fin, keep up the good work. you do build bloody awesome systems lol! i want one for my new car just got to save some money for it first
 

Gaz_

ClioSport Club Member
  Extreme mode
Sounds like stress in the system if its moving with the heat tbh. My Milltek was the same. Thats more to do with the design imo......... Also the resonance is to do with the harmoics of the engine/manifold, not the plastic in the boot floor. Even the standard systems resonate to a large degree, especially when cold. Even my 197 does it
 
The system moving is due to the design of the ball joint flexi used in the 172's stock down pipe. As the stock system is hidden you dont see it. But when you have a 3.5" cut out and a 3" tip , you can seen it. When you rev/ put the engine under load the flexi joint still pushes the system a small amount



One thing that becomming very apparent with the 172 is its a pain in the ass to mount the system's... With out drilling mount points into the spare tire well......

The Resonance is to do with harmonics.... ie the systems are not loud by any means at the back of the car. But Zero sound proofing dosnt help.

(Sound proofing material also deadens the harmonics traveling through the boot of the car.)

And its not from how the system is mounted


2 mpg is more than a 5% fuel saving (That Adds Up over a year motoring)
 
Ya can always have just 1 silencer thats the size of a 25 Gallon drum if ya want......(Like the stock system)
 
  TVR Cerbera
i've quietend down my reasonance a bit by putting foam over the 2 flaps in the boot. Gonna have to get mine booked in soon!
 
I havent. Hes been down twice since building the system but each time Ive not had me camera with me :-(

Looks good too

He's in the RAF and was talking about being away on duty for a while now
 
  2002 172
yes ive changed again lol came down to see you at lunch but you werent in. ill pop round again when i get time
 


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