182 Cup suspension/top mount problem

[Dave H]

I have recently had my front shocks changed. On test there was a rattling noise from the front of the car that was not there before,and when checked we found that the first nut that screws into the top,on the threaded bar, was loose. These were tightened again (they were already tight holding the centre still with an allen key whilst being tightened ) and the noise went. However,after just a few hundred miles they were loose again. I used ptfe on the threads to try and prevent them coming loose and re-tightened them (I swung on them to make sure they were tight),but once again the noise is back and I am sure they are loose again. The second time they came loose one of them it was as if the strut had wound itself off rather than the top mounts coming loose. The last nuts that are fitted to the top mounts were always tight,and thats why I say its as if the struts have wound off from below.

Hope the above makes sense...help !

 

[Keith185]

Have you checked that the springs are still seated properly?

Have you checked the threads on the nuts? Got the old ones still, to try on.

 

[Dave H]

Threads all appear to be fine on the nuts.And the car is still driving straight and true,but with this rattle. I'll check it again at work tomorrow and see if they are loose again.

 

[yellow_chris]

loctite the nuts instead of ptfe..i know its not ideal but should stop nuts coming loose

 

[Dave H]

I'll be able to do that tomorrow,actually. What I don't get is when its all put together it looks the same as when it's come loose.The rubber washer and nut that you can see are in the same position in relation to the threaded bar of the strut. And yet the nut underneath is loose !

 

[Fred@BTM]

new top mounts?

 

[Dave H]

Shocks and top mounts are new.

 

[Fred@BTM]

genuine parts?

 

[Dave H]

Yes

 

[Fred@BTM]

new new as in recently purchased? If yes then i know your problem

you fitted the new top caps and 21mm nuts?

 

[Dave H]

Yes...all new. The top nut takes a 21mm spanner and I think the lower one takes a 26 or 27 mm spanner.

 

[Dave H]

Going to redo the nuts and use a locking paste on the threads,and I'll report later.

 

[Fred@BTM]

NO! DO NOT USE loctite, do you have the new moddified spacer (it stupidly doesn't come with the top mounts)???????

 

[geordie]

I've seen these where the mount on top of the shocker has been fitted upside down causing the top bolt to come loose, i would check that too.

 

[Dave H]

Ok..I'll take some pics and post up.and I'll check that the correct parts were fitted.

 

[Dave H]

Pictures of o/s...
The nut was not very loose and only tightened a 1/4 turn. The n/s was still tight.

 

[Dave H]

NO! DO NOT USE loctite, do you have the new moddified spacer (it stupidly doesn't come with the top mounts)???????

The mechanic refitted the parts that came off the old shocks. We had some problems on the test drive as there was a knocking noise.The first nut that goes on had come loose on the n/s. Both shocks were removed and everything checked and tightened before going back on. This time it was fine until last week. He has offered to recheck everything this weekend and is sure that thread lock will solve the problem.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dave H]

I've just checked the car on flat ground and it does appear that the n/s is higher than the o/s. I can slide three fingers between the top of the wheel and the wing,but only two on the o/s !

 

[James28]

Just get him to take it all off and then reassemble and put back on.
Really don't use loctite if you can help it.

 

[Dave H]

The car is 20 mm higher on the ns compared to the os. The noise is from the ns which should mean that the spring is not compressed and therefore there's going to be little damping. Would you agree?

 

[Dave H]

My springs are Eibach Sportlines. Do I need spring compressors if I remove the strut and take the top mount off to check it is seated correctly ?

 

[Dave H]

Anyone? Can these springs be removed without compressors ?

 

[jordski19]

Tbh mate, when I took my standard springs and shocks out to put coilovers in, there's a top cover that holds the shock and spring together. No compressors required. Definitely not with sport lines.

 

[Dave H]

So I can remove the unit from the car,wind off the top nut,remove the washer and remove the 'cup' that holds the spring without using spring clamps ? If so I could see why the spring appears to not be sitting right,and put it together correctly.

 

[Dave H]

I jacked the car up tonight,both sides,and checked that the springs were seated correctly (they were). There are no cracks in the springs (they are just 15k old ). On both sides,the washers,nuts,rubber washers etc are all in the same position.The threads from the stuts are at the same height on each side and the two nuts on each side all tighten to the same position.The rubber washers on top of the turrets both sit at the same angle and same height.

But......the car is still 20mm higher on the n/s/f and sounds like a bag of spanners over shallow bumps at low speed

 

[sprintcup]

Have you checked the spring heights when off the car, are they the same length and when you lower the weight onto the springs are they the same length, is the spacing between the coils the same when loaded and unloaded, just some things to check.

Regards Russ........

 

[pastieman]

were the front shocks brand new... pattern or renault ???

edit: just re-read that the shock were new... but were they pattern or dealer parts

 

[Dave H]

They were from Renault.

I agree about the spring height but I have not removed the units from the car yet.If I remove them from the car do I have to pretension the springs ? I think the only thing that could have happened is that when the top nuts came loose the top cup allowed the tension of the spring to be released and retightening the top nuts has not compressed the springs to the correct point.

 

[Dave H]

Does anyone have a link to a diagram of the 182 Cup suspension ?

Thanks in advance

 

[MartinR]

Shock absorber--spring--spring top plate--bearing--rubber mount--insert--little nut--fit to car--put top hat on tighten bolt....

Although if you have the newly revised top mounts the insert and little nut are replaced with one complete unit.

 

[Dave H]

Shock absorber--spring--spring top plate--bearing--rubber mount--insert--little nut--fit to car--put top hat on tighten bolt....

Although if you have the newly revised top mounts the insert and little nut are replaced with one complete unit.

Makes sense..cheers.

 

[Dave H]

Had the shocker off and apart. The bearing seems to have been at an angle leaving some marks on the shaft of the shocker. I refitted everything ( a fcuking nightmare last night but sorted now!!!), but the rubber top is still loose and wobbly after the first nut is screwed down all the way. I don't get this. Surely, with the shocker off, doesn't everything fit snug and tight when that first 27mm nut is tightened? I pushed down all the way on the spring cap to make sure everything was flush before tightening the nut all the way. It's as if there's something missing !!!

 

[Keith185]

Took my top mounts off today to drill the struts in preperation for fitting the solid top mounts and found the drivers side top hat/lower top mount loose as you described. No idea how but re tightened and will check next weekend how it is when I change them over. Just thought I'd share that it's not just yours :S

 

[MartinR]

iirc its pretty normal to have movement/wobble in the top mounts,and it doesn't do it once refitted and has the cars weight on them...

 

[Keith185]

Forgot to add *nut in there the nut that holds the lower part of topmount and spring compressed is what I mean

Yeah agree with maertin182 movement in the topmount is normal on lower part.

 

[Dave H]

I have that...plenty of movement. All the nuts are tight on top. Went for a test drive and it just got worse and worse...sounded like the spring had snapped or everything loose. I have no idea what is causing this. The shockers are brand new but I'm beginning to think the ns one is a dud

I also noticed that after a short drive the nsf has risen about 20mm again ! WTF !? Does the strut have to be wound down (sounds daft I know) or something? I'm at my wits end with this

 

[James28]

The Rubber bit that goes ontop of the bearing will be loose even with the little nut tightened. Its normal.
Just make sure you've got the bearing on the right way up.

Just whip them both off, take everything apart, check the lengths of the springs, the length of the shocks when fully extended/compressed and the order of everything on top of the spring. Then put them back on.

 

[Dave H]

Ok...which way up should the bearing go...the rounded side to the rubber part?

Why check the lengths of the springs? The car was fine until the new shockers were fitted so are you saying that they may be damaged now? Or are you saying that I should make sure that both springs match and both shockers match ?

 

[MartinR]

Flat side down rounded up

 

[Dave H]

Ok...everything is back on without any problems. But the car is still higher on the ns and the gap between the spring holder and the lower part of the wing is higher, suggesting that the shocker has not gone into place correctly. O. The top the nuts and rubbers etc are in the same position on both sides. If I rock the car by holding onto the ns wheel whilst off the jacks I can replicate the noise...a knocking noise, and it's coming from the top of the shocker. If I fit a large washer over the top of the strut thread and tighten with the lower nut the noise goes.