182 Extremely rough running after engine start

[MescaL636]

Hi all, I just wanted to reach out for some advice. I've had my 182 for 1.5 years now (second 182). It's unmodified except for exhaust, hasn't been chipped. I keep getting an issue where it runs EXTREMELY rough for about 2 minutes upon starting, and then runs perfectly, it just happens the first time you start the engine on a given day. Only time recently it did not do this was the 37-40deg days we had. I know some people say they all do that, but I'm talking you can only apply max 5% throttle otherwise it lurches and backfires, so it's a struggle to get up to 20/30mph. Mark Fish and Two Techs have both given it a look over. This issue happened from when I got the car, but then for 6 months after replacing the battery it was totally fine (and only slightly rough on starting like my old 182), but just spontaneously started happening again recently. No codes are showing up at the moment. I ran it with a home OBD2 scanner and noticed the lumpy/rough engine is timed with spikes/dropouts in voltage so I wonder if it's something electrical? It's throwing no codes at the moment. I've had the following relevant bits replaced new in the last year (but a lot more aside).

New injectors (code)
New spark plugs
New battery
Cambelt/Dephaser/AUX belt
Water temperature sensor & connector (code)
Oil/coolant
Exhaust mounting fixed and re-sealed

Possibly from reading/discussing with mechanics it could be the crank angle sensor but I wondered if others had any other ideas before I just throw more of the parts bin at it? I recall reading there was a sensor which is just used for the first 2 mins for oil/air ratio whilst the engine is heating up and then it switches to another, but I can't recall now whether that's the crank angle or another sensor? Any advice would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Nick

 

[Krarl]

It's the cold start map, mines the same. It runs like a bag of absolute s**t for the first couple of mins and then when it sees the temp start to rise it's fine

It's like a kangaroo some days

 

[Louis]

Mine is also like this from cold. Pops and bangs like a fiesta ST in macccies at 7pm.

 

[Brigsy]

As above stock map is horrendous when cold, hesitation the lot, i believe its like that to warm the cat up fast. Decent map will sort that out.

 

[SharpyClio]

Mine was super rough when cold and then felt okay as it warmed up. I had thought it was the TDC sensor but turned out the timing was out.

 

[MescaL636]

Thanks all, I posted on FB too it seems like a lot have this issue. Suggestions were map sensor, lambda sensor or crank angle sensor, but hard to say if that would fix the problem. Could just be the normal map in combination with wear and tear: http://www.***********.com/article/25-lumpy-idle-on-a-clio-172-182-when-cold/. My previous mapped 182 didn't have this issue, but as the car is stock I really want to avoid any modifications. I still can't figure out why it was running fine for a 6 month period though, other than the explanation that it's French. But it's annoying than anything else and I can deal with it.

 

[RustyMojo]

As others mine does this, it’s the cold startup. Mine is timed perfectly, new injectors, lambdas and spark plugs. It’s usually for a few minutes until it’s warm. Absolutely nothing to worry about as I see it

 

[Krarl]

Aye as above mine has had 4 new injectors, new spark plugs, new coil pack, Magnecor HT leads. The only things I haven't changed are the CTS, MAP and IAT sensor

The RS Tuner 98 RON map is meant to help dramatically

 

[RustyMojo]

That’s a good point kyle, I only run mine on Shell V-Power.

 

[Mr Underhill]

As above stock map is horrendous when cold, hesitation the lot, i believe its like that to warm the cat up fast. Decent map will sort that out.

I replaced every sensor on my BG Jon (all genuine new parts). Went over the car with a fine tooth comb - you know what I'm like - and in the end had the ECU reset by Chris to the factory version.

Never cured it, so In the end, I drove it to Chris and it's no better really. I thought if Chris can't sort it, nobody can. We came to the conclusion that it's just an age thing. My RB does it ever so slightly, not as noticeable, but it's there nonetheless.

 

[Krarl]

That’s a good point kyle, I only run mine on Shell V-Power.

Aye mine only gets Momentum

Left work earlier and recorded my cold start, it took 2 mins and 30 seconds for it to come off of the cold start map🤣

 

[hopgop1]

I had the same when my pre-cat lambda died, I did get an EML though which gave me a code though. Cold map is crap, but surely not so crap that it lurches and backfires? Mine doesn't do that to that extent, although I do let it warm up for a bit before I set off.
Look at live data on the lambda and see if it's behaving?

 

[Mr Underhill]

I had the same when my pre-cat lambda died, I did get an EML though which gave me a code though. Cold map is crap, but surely not so crap that it lurches and backfires? Mine doesn't do that to that extent, although I do let it warm up for a bit before I set off.
Look at live data on the lambda and see if it's behaving?

I've read post from as far back as 2006 of people complaining about the cold maps.

My BG was playing up a few years back, so I replaced the following on mine:

• Both lambda sensors
• New genuine Knock sensor
• New genuine spark plugs
• New Magnetti Marelli injectors
• New genuine temp switch
• New genuine oil pressure switch
• New genuine HT leads
• New genuine throttle body
• New genuine MAP sensor
• Had ECU restored back to factory (EFi)
• Had car remapped by EFi
• New genuine gaskets on the inlet, exhaust manifold
• New genuine TDC sensor (latest version)

The whole car is new haha and still does it.

Somewhere in the system, there's something not quite right, but we just gave up in the end. The RB is starting to do it now but only slightly.

 

[hopgop1]

I've read post from as far back as 2006 of people complaining about the cold maps.

My BG was playing up a few years back, so I replaced the following on mine:

• Both lambda sensors
• New genuine Knock sensor
• New genuine spark plugs
• New Magnetti Marelli injectors
• New genuine temp switch
• New genuine oil pressure switch
• New genuine HT leads
• New genuine throttle body
• New genuine MAP sensor
• Had ECU restored back to factory (EFi)
• Had car remapped by EFi
• New genuine gaskets on the inlet, exhaust manifold
• New genuine TDC sensor (latest version)

The whole car is new haha and still does it.

Somewhere in the system, there's something not quite right, but we just gave up in the end. The RB is starting to do it now but only slightly.

Mine definitely feels significantly slower before it's warm and has a hint of a lumpy idle, my ears are not well tuned to engines though. Mine has had quite a few from your list too, so I'm not worried about chasing it.
OP's sounds a lot worse than say mine though? But I suppose without an EML to say something is definitely faulty, it probably is pointless firing the parts cannon.

 

[Krarl]

Mine has the lumpiest idle even when warm. Give it any sort of revs and it sits perfectly but at idle it bobs around all over the shop🤣

 

[Mr Underhill]

Mine definitely feels significantly slower before it's warm and has a hint of a lumpy idle, my ears are not well tuned to engines though. Mine has had quite a few from your list too, so I'm not worried about chasing it.
OP's sounds a lot worse than say mine though? But I suppose without an EML to say something is definitely faulty, it probably is pointless firing the parts cannon.

My BG judders and bounces along the road if I try and drive it slowly from cold. Boot it and it won't go anywhere like it's misfiring.

We're talking minutes though, then it's fine. So I now routinely start the car in the morning or evening, slowly put my seat belt on, shuffle my arse in the seat, check my makeup, check the mirror, then set off and it's fine 😂

 

[Brigsy]

I've read post from as far back as 2006 of people complaining about the cold maps.

My BG was playing up a few years back, so I replaced the following on mine:

• Both lambda sensors
• New genuine Knock sensor
• New genuine spark plugs
• New Magnetti Marelli injectors
• New genuine temp switch
• New genuine oil pressure switch
• New genuine HT leads
• New genuine throttle body
• New genuine MAP sensor
• Had ECU restored back to factory (EFi)
• Had car remapped by EFi
• New genuine gaskets on the inlet, exhaust manifold
• New genuine TDC sensor (latest version)

The whole car is new haha and still does it.

Somewhere in the system, there's something not quite right, but we just gave up in the end. The RB is starting to do it now but only slightly.

Thats all bases covered for sure sensor wise. Wonder if any faults inside the ecu? I seen something similar on another car where a capacator was on its last legs in the ecu causing odd quirks like this. Ive not had a 172 ecu apart to see whats in it though so god knows. Has fuel pressure/pump ever been checked?

 

[Mr Underhill]

Thats all bases covered for sure sensor wise. Wonder if any faults inside the ecu? I seen something similar on another car where a capacator was on its last legs in the ecu causing odd quirks like this. Ive not had a 172 ecu apart to see whats in it though so god knows. Has fuel pressure/pump ever been checked?

Never checked the pump or fuel pressure tbh. The house has taken priority but I’ll definitely add that to the list when I refit the air con

 

[Yarp]

Mine still does the same. It drove me nuts and progressively got worse a few years back. I fired the parts cannon at it and a new Bosch lambda sensor pretty much solved it so just called it a day. I found a very small vacuum leak helped and also helped with cutting out when coming to junctions

 

[Louis]

@leeds2592 followed me from my house when cold before and could hear it popping and banging.

 

[Brigsy]

Never checked the pump or fuel pressure tbh. The house has taken priority but I’ll definitely add that to the list when I refit the air con

My kangoo 172 had an issue with weak fuel pressure regulator, on a cold start if sat for a week or so it needed 2x clicks of the ign so it primed the pump to get a clean start. Failing to to do that and cranking it loads resulted in a rough start and it was unhappy until warm, and it always ran fine when hot. I neved checked fuel pressure or anything, its a long shot but it may be worth a look.

 

[Krarl]

Now you've said that I want to change my pump🤣 I've always had it in the back of my mind that it's old and w**k and mine does very similar to that sometimes

 

[Mr Underhill]

Mine still does the same. It drove me nuts and progressively got worse a few years back. I fired the parts cannon at it and a new Bosch lambda sensor pretty much solved it so just called it a day. I found a very small vacuum leak helped and also helped with cutting out when coming to junctions

Hmmm mine occasionally stalls at junctions too.

 

[Brigsy]

Now you've said that I want to change my pump🤣 I've always had it in the back of my mind that it's old and w**k and mine does very similar to that sometimes

Worth looking at mate for preventative maintenance if nothing else. Age is not on their side now.

 

[RustyMojo]

@leeds2592 followed me from my house when cold before and could hear it popping and banging.

Guess you are running a decat, induction kit etc mate?

Most 1*2 seem to run non standard induction/exhaust, Decats, removed acoustic valves etc. which would only accentuate the characteristics of the cold map. I don’t think kangeroo’ing is right, but ultimately they should rub differently when cold. Bit like the old days, when we used to have to run a choke (for us old gits)

Worth looking at mate for preventative maintenance if nothing else. Age is not on their side now.

you know, this is something I’m going to look at changing. You are right, mine must be the thick end of 20yrs old now. Can’t do any harm replacing the old girl

 

[Brigsy]

you know, this is something I’m going to look at changing. You are right, mine must be the thick end of 20yrs old now. Can’t do any harm replacing the old girl

Indeed. Id bet my bottom dollar the fuel trims add more fuel on the 172 to suit wear and tear on the pump, and with it being n/a you can get away with a half knackered pump for ages before it starts running real rough.

Im sure the pump body has the internal filter like the megs so it prob has a service interval/lifespan, however im not 100% on this as its been ages since ive stripped a 172 sender down.

 

[leeds2592]

@leeds2592 followed me from my house when cold before and could hear it popping and banging.

It is true, I could.

Mine also does it, runs like a bag of nails when it's cold, kangaroos and does the odd pop.

 

[Louis]

It is true, I could.

Mine also does it, runs like a bag of nails when it's cold, kangaroos like mad and does the odd pop.

Yours also proper stinks of fuel too weirdly.

 

[leeds2592]

Yours also proper stinks of fuel too weirdly.

Mine's just fucked .... which is exactly the reason I'm slapping a spooly boy to it which will probably blow the engine up but it'll be a laugh for the whole 2 miles it does before it goes bang

 

[Brigsy]

Mine used to hesitate for a mile or so in cooler ambient temps until the coolant gauge hit a certain point and then absoultely fine, it was like clockwork. I guess was as soon as it was off cold start and into closed loop fuelling. Winter use was not the best on short journeys, but summer good as engine come up to temp fast so by the time id got it off the drive it was about right. The megane 225 done exactly the same until it was mapped without cat by Efi.

 

[Louis]

Guess you are running a decat, induction kit etc mate?

Most 1*2 seem to run non standard induction/exhaust, Decats, removed acoustic valves etc. which would only accentuate the characteristics of the cold map. I don’t think kangeroo’ing is right, but ultimately they should rub differently when cold. Bit like the old days, when we used to have to run a choke (for us old gits)

No occifer my car is all legal with no modifications.

 

[clio_ross]

you know, this is something I’m going to look at changing. You are right, mine must be the thick end of 20yrs old now. Can’t do any harm replacing the old girl

Indeed. Id bet my bottom dollar the fuel trims add more fuel on the 172 to suit wear and tear on the pump, and with it being n/a you can get away with a half knackered pump for ages before it starts running real rough.

Im sure the pump body has the internal filter like the megs so it prob has a service interval/lifespan, however im not 100% on this as its been ages since ive stripped a 172 sender down.

Slightly related, yet tangential; I had the fuel pump fail on my 172 last summer driving home from work one evening. No warnings, funny noises just died whilst doing 60mph.

Looking back on it now, the only potential indicator was having to quite often having to do the 2 cycles of the ignition to get the car to fire, like what @Brigsy said, but the car’s so seldom used I just put it down to that.

So there is a good chance pumps could be a contributing factor to the cold start issues being seen now.

 

[Clio_fool]

Mine runs lovely and smooth all the time. It's obviously very broken then😂.

 

[Louis]

Mine runs lovely and smooth all the time. It's obviously very broken then😂.

You never go above 1500 rpm anyway

 

[chazza114]

My Phase 1 is terrible when it's cold in the morning, especially with the throttle cable being a bit sticky. I can manage either 1% throttle or 100%, there's no inbetween so I end up kangarooing down the street like a right tit. My neighbours must love me 😬

 

[Darren S]

Hi all, I just wanted to reach out for some advice. I've had my 182 for 1.5 years now (second 182). It's unmodified except for exhaust, hasn't been chipped. I keep getting an issue where it runs EXTREMELY rough for about 2 minutes upon starting, and then runs perfectly, it just happens the first time you start the engine on a given day. Only time recently it did not do this was the 37-40deg days we had. I know some people say they all do that, but I'm talking you can only apply max 5% throttle otherwise it lurches and backfires, so it's a struggle to get up to 20/30mph. Mark Fish and Two Techs have both given it a look over. This issue happened from when I got the car, but then for 6 months after replacing the battery it was totally fine (and only slightly rough on starting like my old 182), but just spontaneously started happening again recently. No codes are showing up at the moment. I ran it with a home OBD2 scanner and noticed the lumpy/rough engine is timed with spikes/dropouts in voltage so I wonder if it's something electrical? It's throwing no codes at the moment. I've had the following relevant bits replaced new in the last year (but a lot more aside).

New injectors (code)
New spark plugs
New battery
Cambelt/Dephaser/AUX belt
Water temperature sensor & connector (code)
Oil/coolant
Exhaust mounting fixed and re-sealed

Possibly from reading/discussing with mechanics it could be the crank angle sensor but I wondered if others had any other ideas before I just throw more of the parts bin at it? I recall reading there was a sensor which is just used for the first 2 mins for oil/air ratio whilst the engine is heating up and then it switches to another, but I can't recall now whether that's the crank angle or another sensor? Any advice would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Nick

Have you got an audio clip of just how bad, 'bad' is?