182 Handling Upgrade...

[SuperchargedSean]

Hi All. New to This forum. 1st Post!

Just in the process of gettin rid of my supercharged saxo:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/371700.htm

Sorry for the plug! Anyway im also in the process of gettin a 182.

Wont be my daily driver for 9months so will be looking to do some stuff to it while its off the road. Car is a 182. In Racing Blue (i think thats the colour) 16" trophy wheels and some Ktec filter. Anyway...its also lowered 30mm ish. Will be looking to make some upgrades straight away.

Here's my proposed plan:

Fk coilover front n Rear
Powerflex bushes everywhere possible
Front n rear Strut Brace
Upgraded Engine mounts - where from?
300mm 4 Pot brakes & braided lines

That sound like a good setup? will be fast road and track setup. Will need to be adjustable as car will eventually be daily driver!

 

[SuperchargedSean]

anything else i should consider. camper adjustable bolts?

 

[Cue]

better brakes would be the first thing on the agenda. Brembo Max & Pagid Rs42's.

Next question is why the engine mounts? No need for 4 pots, the above set-up is more than ample.

Camber adjustment is a good idea - don't go too extreme mind.
Strut braces, i wouldn't go for a rear one - it'll make the car understeer (you may be used to this coming from a Supercharged Saxo but still.....

 

[d4ve86]

there are currently no upgrated engine mounts, only powerflex bushes for the lower one.

Camber bolts are good, Cue what do you class as extreme?

If you fancy some AP Racing 4 pots there will be a kit available next week

 

[capturedbyjames]

Small hijack to save a new thread - who does camber adjustment bolts for FKs?

 

[capturedbyjames]

Thats not Mat's (fmp_) old saxo is it? Just noticed the shed motorsport sticker!

 

[d4ve86]

Small hijack to save a new thread - who does camber adjustment bolts for FKs?

I think these should do the job on most dampers -

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=1100

I belive there is some eibach ones available aswell

 

[y0z2a]

there are currently no upgrated engine mounts, only powerflex bushes for the lower one.

We do the RenaultSport France Group N Kit.

/y0z

 

[SuperchargedSean]

not FMP's saxo. Bulit with my own fair hands!

Cheers for info guys.

i say 4 pots simply becuase the car will see some decetn track time. Mainly at bedford which is a quick track with lots of high speeds to slow corners. i think 4 pots will be my best option.

 

[PPTom]

do you need camber bolts with a set of H&R's or are the struts adjustable by themselves?

 

[rory182]

FK's have built in camber correction so no need for camber bolts there...

 

[Mark One]

polybush dog bone mount will stiffen it up, but some people say that they cause your other engine mounts to wear quick

 

[SuperchargedSean]

what size are the standard brakes?

Cant belive you dont have uprated engine mounts, no group N ones available?

 

[SuperchargedSean]

sorry just read the post from yoz2a

group n ones available!

Basically im not plannin on doing anything with the engine side of things until i get braking and handling perfected. But im not too bothered about ride qaulity so the more hardcore the better on the ride!

Hence this thread. Car already has ITG filter, but thats about it. i think power is wasted in a car that cant handle. But big brakes, means super late braking and then the better suspension to carry tgat speed. ive done my fair share of track days in the saxo n will be looking to improve with the clio

 

[Alan]

Forget the FK's get H&R or bilsteins..

 

[rory182]

what size are the standard brakes?

280mm

 

[SuperchargedSean]

so i could just go for some 4 pot calipers n forget the larger discs?

 

[Cue]

if you're adamant in fitting 4 pots make sure you also fit brake ducting or they'll overheat quickly.

remember the clio cup cars didn't have 4 pots and they were stripped out racers.( a tad lighter than the road going cars but still..)

 

[fmp_]

hey Sean.

Great to hear your coming to the Clio fold!

first thing i would warn you, the characters that live on here are a whole different bunch to Saxo owners. As you well know, a Saxo owner is not shy about spending 5k on a s/c conversion to a VTR thats worth 2k!

Whereas here alot of people are scared to spend more than 50p on a performance mod!

so with that in mind....

Go for 4 pots, they are alot better than the standard setup. Those that say you dont need them etc, either a) dont do track days and run thier car HARD, or b) have never used them and just listen to some of the so called 'experts' of this wonderful site.

You have a few options on the 4 pot front, GDI do a Wilwood kit that uses standard discs. As D4ve mentioned there is an AP kit ready for realease, using 2 peice discs, top stuff, but no change from £1500. I think Hispec do a kit, but never seen it. And Compbrake also do a 4 pot kit, 2 peoce discs etc. This is what i run.

Most of the above kits will fit under 15inch wheels, which is what u wanna run for best handling on track. They are lighter, drop the centre of gravity slightly, plus better acceleration (but then you know all that!!).

Suspension wise, i ran H&R coilovers on my old 182. They were very good out of the box, but could of been a bit stiffer for track use. I never used the KW's, but heard that the H&R's are better. Both of these can be had at a resonable price.

If you want to go a bit more specialist and adjustable then you wanna be looking at GDI's offering or a set of Leda's. That way you can spec pretty much what you want. Prices range from about 1200 - 2500.

Strut braces... anything to stiffer any flex up is good in my eyes. They are generally seen as pointless on here, but that again is just most people listening to what an 'expert' has said, with no real testing or back up to prove otherwise.

Engine mount wise, as mentioned Yozzasport do a full GrpN kit, but its a smidge under 1k. I am interested in it, but wanna see it first. Otherwise its an uprated lower gearbox mount from powerflex. I have one fitted, seems to do its job.

Again some people like, some dont. Some seem to think it will wear the other mounts out quicker, which if it does, it aint gonna do it over night. AS you know tho, anything to reduce engine movement is a bonus!

so, thats my 2p's worth on your questions! oh and when you get it, let me know, shed stickers will be on their way! hehe

 

[fmp_]

if you're adamant in fitting 4 pots make sure you also fit brake ducting or they'll overheat quickly.

remember the clio cup cars didn't have 4 pots and they were stripped out racers.( a tad lighter than the road going cars but still..)

why will they overheat quickly?

whilst i agree that extra cooling will benefit, one of the main advantages of 4 pots is they dont overheat as quickly as standard callipers. Especially if using a two peice disc as the heat transfer is less.

 

[Dan R]

hey Sean.

Great to hear your coming to the Clio fold!

first thing i would warn you, the characters that live on here are a whole different bunch to Saxo owners. As you well know, a Saxo owner is not shy about spending 5k on a s/c conversion to a VTR thats worth 2k!

Whereas here alot of people are scared to spend more than 50p on a performance mod!

so with that in mind....

Go for 4 pots, they are alot better than the standard setup. Those that say you dont need them etc, either a) dont do track days and run thier car HARD, or b) have never used them and just listen to some of the so called 'experts' of this wonderful site.

You have a few options on the 4 pot front, GDI do a Wilwood kit that uses standard discs. As D4ve mentioned there is an AP kit ready for realease, using 2 peice discs, top stuff, but no change from £1500. I think Hispec do a kit, but never seen it. And Compbrake also do a 4 pot kit, 2 peoce discs etc. This is what i run.

Most of the above kits will fit under 15inch wheels, which is what u wanna run for best handling on track. They are lighter, drop the centre of gravity slightly, plus better acceleration (but then you know all that!!).

Suspension wise, i ran H&R coilovers on my old 182. They were very good out of the box, but could of been a bit stiffer for track use. I never used the KW's, but heard that the H&R's are better. Both of these can be had at a resonable price.

If you want to go a bit more specialist and adjustable then you wanna be looking at GDI's offering or a set of Leda's. That way you can spec pretty much what you want. Prices range from about 1200 - 2500.

Strut braces... anything to stiffer any flex up is good in my eyes. They are generally seen as pointless on here, but that again is just most people listening to what an 'expert' has said, with no real testing or back up to prove otherwise.

Engine mount wise, as mentioned Yozzasport do a full GrpN kit, but its a smidge under 1k. I am interested in it, but wanna see it first. Otherwise its an uprated lower gearbox mount from powerflex. I have one fitted, seems to do its job.

Again some people like, some dont. Some seem to think it will wear the other mounts out quicker, which if it does, it aint gonna do it over night. AS you know tho, anything to reduce engine movement is a bonus!

so, thats my 2p's worth on your questions! oh and when you get it, let me know, shed stickers will be on their way! hehe

Apart from GDI arent doin that kit anymore.

 

[Cue]

a couple of reasons

1. unless you go for something like the compbrake 4pots the extra force applied to the brake generates more heat without proper dispersal, 2 piece disks do aid this obviously but i've seen the wilwood ones warp disks on the way to a track day!

2. the wheels on the 182 are pants for cooling, seems to me the clio wasn't designed to help the brakes cool.

Definately get a set of track wheels, 15" was my preference as there's a better and greater choice of tyres, although this does slightly worsen the cooling arguement.

Ducting can be had for sub £200, if you're spending 7-800 quid on brakes you may as well go for it imo.

ps, i spent my late teens racing various cars and only just had my national licance expire. I'm not talking from other's experience.

I haven't said 4 pots are pointless just that a good disk/brake combo like brembo max and pagid rs4-2 or rs 15's is more than adequate, spending the £600 saving elsewhere would be my choice.

 

[Cue]

i've heard that AP will be releasing one soon, i'll get onto my supplier to see what sort of price he can do.

 

[tonykart]

Well trust me keep your money for the back strut brace in your pocket. the car is to stiff that the backside always want to go places you don't wanna go. So front strut only is the best !

 

[fmp_]

Apart from GDI arent doin that kit anymore.

oh really? when did that happen? we taking brakes or suspension here?

 

[fmp_]

i've heard that AP will be releasing one soon, i'll get onto my supplier to see what sort of price he can do.

yup, i beleive D4ve has his kit on the way, tho i dont think AP do it direct, another comapny has made the brackets etc. Like i mentioned, a few quid change from £1500!!

 

[Linsen]

(...) but i've seen the wilwood ones warp disks on the way to a track day!

Judging by a picture I've seen in some other thread, the Wilwood kit uses rather small pads (they actually seem to be smaller than standard). So, that would be more force on a smaller area and thus more heat will be generated?

In general, I don't see why a higher number of pots would have any positive influence on the heat generated. I'd say it's merely a question of force vs. surface area. Thus I always thought that the advantage of 4-, 6- or 8-pot brakes would mostly lie in the fact that they're usually combined with larger discs than standard and different materials (only talking about heat, not about other benefits there might be)? But I am absolutely no expert and am just going by my personal logic. So, this might be all wrong.

And another question: How is pedal feel influenced by more pots than standard? I heard people say that with the compbrake kit, the pedal got softer. Is that only true for the compbrake kit or is that a general disadvantage of 4-pots?

 

[Dan R]

(...) but i've seen the wilwood ones warp disks on the way to a track day!

Judging by a picture I've seen in some other thread, the Wilwood kit uses rather small pads (they actually seem to be smaller than standard). So, that would be more force on a smaller area and thus more heat will be generated?

In general, I don't see why a higher number of pots would have any positive influence on the heat generated. I'd say it's merely a question of force vs. surface area. Thus I always thought that the advantage of 4-, 6- or 8-pot brakes would mostly lie in the fact that they're usually combined with larger discs than standard and different materials (only talking about heat, not about other benefits there might be)? But I am absolutely no expert and am just going by my personal logic. So, this might be all wrong.

And another question: How is pedal feel influenced by more pots than standard? I heard people say that with the compbrake kit, the pedal got softer. Is that only true for the compbrake kit or is that a general disadvantage of 4-pots?

Its because the caliper flexes and twists under pressure. Sign of cheap calipers!!!!

 

[Cue]

there could be a number of factors and reasons that influence this. maybe they didn't refresh/upgrade the brake fluid, lines etc or it could be down to the kit.

I went up from 6 pots to 8 pots on the M3 and it didn't effect pedal feel at all.

 

[fmp_]

pedal feel on the compbrakes is not softer, if bled properly, it is just slightly longer.

i put this down to more fluid having to be moved initially. Otherwise in my opinion they have better pedal feel, are more progressive and have more modulation.

But each to thier own. I am happy to sacrifice a bit of initial pedal travel for a stronger set of brakes.

And whilst the calipers on such kits as the Compbrake might flex more than a monoblock calliper, they are certanley not bendy!!

 

[d4ve86]

i've heard that AP will be releasing one soon, i'll get onto my supplier to see what sort of price he can do.

yup, i beleive D4ve has his kit on the way, tho i dont think AP do it direct, another comapny has made the brackets etc. Like i mentioned, a few quid change from £1500!!

roll on next week! fingers crossed!

 

[SuperchargedSean]

hi Matt, knew youd be floating around here somewhere.

The clio in question belongs to a mate of mine and lives about 10 doors up from me. i know all about the car and he's defo selling, so as long as i like it then its mine. going to look tomorrow

Cheers for all the info. shed motorsport stickers would be a nice editions. Has a rtaher large cliosport.net sticker on at the mo that will be coming off but other than that the car is really nice!

Pics up soon

 

[Tony Hunter]

Our Cup cars run on standard discs with ds 2500 pads,plenty good enough

 

[Cue]

Our Cup cars run on standard discs with ds 2500 pads,plenty good enough

+1 thank you that man.

 

[fmp_]

hi Matt, knew youd be floating around here somewhere.

The clio in question belongs to a mate of mine and lives about 10 doors up from me. i know all about the car and he's defo selling, so as long as i like it then its mine. going to look tomorrow

Cheers for all the info. shed motorsport stickers would be a nice editions. Has a rtaher large cliosport.net sticker on at the mo that will be coming off but other than that the car is really nice!

Pics up soon

good stuff mate. its the natural progression from the saxo. And planning on your mods, should be alot of fun on track too!

 

[fmp_]

Our Cup cars run on standard discs with ds 2500 pads,plenty good enough

have you tried them with 4 pots? or does the rules that you run in not allow it?

 

[Fred@BTM]

^the drivers in his championship just know how to drive :rasp:

 

[Spammy]

Having been in a 182 with a fair bit of work you wont notice that much difference from a decent set of pads and discs to the Wilwoods...

 

[SuperchargedSean]

anyone doubting FMP's driving. i can vouch that he one of the nuttiest f*****s ive ever seen drive! both in his scoob and his clio

 

[Tony Hunter]

Our Cup cars run on standard discs with ds 2500 pads,plenty good enough

have you tried them with 4 pots? or does the rules that you run in not allow it?

Rules and Regulations,never had any problems with fading etc,infact its suprising how little you actually use them!!