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197 Gearbox Problem/Idea



1

197

Hello everybody and thank you for any help given.
i Have a 2007 Clio 197 and i am sick of the car reving its guts off while motorway cruising and drinking fuel. Before anyone starts i know it is designed with a short ratio for acceleration and fun.
My problem and idea is,

Would it be possible to change the sixth gear cog for one from a diesel, this would bring the revs down and also increase top end speed i think,( well it did in my axgtr( aahh the days))

Just wanting to know if anyone else has thought about this or has done it?
 
  Cupra 300 ST 4drive
The nature of the engine, theres not enough torque low down for a longer final drive, wifes 2.0 138 Clio has 23mph/1000rpm in 6th , but theres 145Ibs at 3600 rpm as opposed to your 197s 150 odd Ibs at above 5000 rpm, it would be gutless and bog down all the time mate, there would be too much ratio gap between 5th and 6th, hope this helps
 
  RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
It probably wouldn't increase top speed. That's a matter of how much drag the car generates versus how much horsepower the engine produces. You figure out what speed that amount of horsepower can produce and gear it so at that speed the engine is at the revs it produces peak horsepower at. Either shortening or lengthening the gearing from there will produce a lower top speed. It appears the gearing for the 172 and 182 and 197 are all very very close to what produces maximum speed in top gear.

What you could do is change the gear ratios so that that 5th gear produces that ideal gearing. And 6th is an overdrive for quieter and more economical cruising.

The problem with that is that it would require either a taller diff ratio, which would mean all the gears would be taller, so moving away in 1st would be like trying to move off in 2nd is now, or it would require a more wide ratio set of gears, ie bigger gaps between the gears. As a manufacturer tunes an engine more that moves the peak power further up the rev range, but it doesn't widen the power band. So the engine needs a closer ratio gearbox to make sure it stays in the powerband. All these factors came together to mean that when Renault decided it was going to build a significantly bigger and therefore heavier new Clio Sport with a more highly tuned version of the same engine it could get pretty close to the same outright performance in both acceleration and top speed, but to do it it needed a closer ratio gearbox with more gears. If you try to change the gearbox ratios to widen them out you will actually get less performance not more.

What would solve your problem is one of a couple of things:
1. somehow reduce the weight back to 172/182 weight, that'd solve a lot of problems, but it would require losing stuff like air conditioning, or reducing safety, or high priced lightweight parts made out of expensive materials like carbon fibre, or
2. even more gears, eg, a 7 speed gearbox with 7th as an overdrive that you'd only use for cruising on the motorway, or
3. a CVT (continuously variable ratio) automatic transmission with a range of ratios from as low as the manual gearbox's first to something higher than the current 6th for motorway cruising, and these are available, but unfortunately they are less efficient than a manual gearbox, so less power would get from the engine to the wheels and the car would have a lower top speed, or
4. either a bigger capacity engine, or the equivalent of it, by which I mean one with a low boost turbo or supercharger, or an engine with something like Honda's intelligent VTEC system that allows more top end horsepower without losing bottom end torque. This would allow you to produce more torque and just as much power (or more) at lower revs meaning the close ratio gearbox wouldn't be required, and 6th could be lengthened to make it a motorway gear.

I'm sorry, but Renault's engineers aren't idiots. There are plenty of fixes, but if there was an obvious easy cheap one they would have done it, wouldn't they.

What you'll see in the next few years is car manufacturers going to slightly smaller engines, but fitted with low boost turbos, to achieve the same apparent feel to the driver as a bigger engine but with better fuel economy. So you'll buy a Laguna or a Mondeo, and instead of a 2.0, it'll have a low-boost turbo 1.6. And that engine will also fit in the next body-size down to make a performance model.
 
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blimey. some expensive options you've got there! i realise that it'll help with fuel economy but how's reducing weight going to alter engine speed at cruise?

would it not just be possible to swap to a taller 6th cog?
 
  Mk4 XR3i 90 - spec
blimey. some expensive options you've got there! i realise that it'll help with fuel economy but how's reducing weight going to alter engine speed at cruise?

would it not just be possible to swap to a taller 6th cog?


Technically yes, and shouldn't be too difficult. The Ford boys do this with certain Sierra models. Only slight difference in 5th gear but enough to reduce from 3500rpm to say 2800rpm.

There are lots of options, try talking to a gearbox/gear manufacturer and u might be able to get a single gear made up to be perfect for the job.

Loss of torque shouldn't be an issue for cruising. Unless you were halfing the ratio, which would be silly. Good luck
 
197 is 18.9mph/1000rpm; DCI (i believe) is 33.3mph/1000rpm - it's a turbo diesel gear and would be way too high

probably only need to lengthen by 10-15% to make an appreciable difference - ?
 
1

197

thanks for the help, still going to try and find out some info on it before i right it off the idea, just sick of sitting at 60 and doing 3,000 rpm.

Henry thanks for that bit of info, might see if there is another gearbox i could use the cog out of?
 
  Mk4 XR3i 90 - spec
197 is 18.9mph/1000rpm; DCI (i believe) is 33.3mph/1000rpm - it's a turbo diesel gear and would be way too high

probably only need to lengthen by 10-15% to make an appreciable difference - ?

Not actually very accurate, wouldn't that mean by 3000rpm one would be doing 99.9mph??

That's about 20mph out. It's gotta be less surely, my DCI hasn't seen 100mph yet and i've been just up to 3000rpm in 5th.
 
  Mégane RS
not that it helps you much but renault are now fitting the new longer ratios out of the cup into the 197's as of october
 
1

197

not that it helps you much but renault are now fitting the new longer ratios out of the cup into the 197's as of october

Will speak to my friend in Renault about that. Could there be light at the end of the tunnel?
 


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